User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: New inlet manifold, new egr, new water pump and timg belt but loads of balack smoke

  1. #1
    Regular Member StephSCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Vectra C

    Trim : Hatchback

    Engine : 1.9cdti

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 146275

    Default New inlet manifold, new egr, new water pump and timg belt but loads of balack smoke

    As the title suggests, I replaced the inlet manifold with a brand new one, replaced EGR with a brand new one, done timing belt and water pump. I have done the third injector wire replacement and the airbox mod.

    Now the car kicks out loads of black smoke when i accelerate fast, none when the wife drives as she drives it slow and steady, but with the EGR plugged in the car splutters along like kangaroo juice, with it out it runs like a dream ecxcept the black smoke. Problem is the car is due it's MOT on the 15th of February and I fear it will fail on emissions. Hold the revs at 4000rpm and no smoke, but that is only if you accelerate slowly, do ity fast and you get a massive cloud of smoke then nothing.

    I have read loads of posts from loads of sites about this problem so I am stumped. I have done all the vac hoses and even replaced the valve thing that is bolted on top and hose leads down top turbo. I cannot hear any hissing or sucking from the intercooler or the hoses.

    Car is a 1.9 cdti Vectra 150bhp on a 04 plate with 120,000 on the clock, so any ideas would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Manchester
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats





    Default

    Is the throttle body all nice and clean and free to move. If this was sticking then it could cause too much egr when you have it plugged in. It has a return spring that opens it by default though so maybe try unplugging that and taking it for a run, just to make sure there is not a restriction there.

    Take it that you connected the swirl pots up to the actuator and they are moving? They should move to about 2 o clock position on idle, closing off 1 set of the intake ports. With revs they should move back to around 10 o clock.

    Air filter nice and clean....MAF clean?

    It sounds like a rich condition (hence black smoke!); almost like the turbo is spinning up so the ecu fuels according to the MAF (increased air intake before turbo), but that air is just not making it into the manifold.

    Other than that could it just be with your new manifold you air purging the exhaust of a load of soot?? The EGR issue suggest it's more of a lack of air issue though to me.

  3. #3
    Regular Member StephSCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Vectra C

    Trim : Hatchback

    Engine : 1.9cdti

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 146275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyaykroyd View Post
    Is the throttle body all nice and clean and free to move. If this was sticking then it could cause too much egr when you have it plugged in. It has a return spring that opens it by default though so maybe try unplugging that and taking it for a run, just to make sure there is not a restriction there.
    I cleaned the entire throttle body and replaced the gasket, I also done the soldering fix inside the control system. Before I put it back on I check the movement of the flap and it seemed free and clear, but I will do as you suggested and also remove it and double check it, good job I purchased 2 gaskets.

    Take it that you connected the swirl pots up to the actuator and they are moving? They should move to about 2 o clock position on idle, closing off 1 set of the intake ports. With revs they should move back to around 10 o clock.
    The swirl pots are working perfectly, the actuator is also working fine, I have checked with the wife revving the engine whilst I check the swirl flaps and they move as they should do.

    Air filter nice and clean....MAF clean?
    Brand new K&N filter, the one recommended in one of the "Mods" and MAF seems nice and clean/clean

    It sounds like a rich condition (hence black smoke!); almost like the turbo is spinning up so the ecu fuels according to the MAF (increased air intake before turbo), but that air is just not making it into the manifold.
    I have a turbo boost guage attached to the large hose that comes off the N/S side of the Intercooler up to the throttle body and I have put a vacuum/pressure tester on this and there is definatly air getting to the throttle body and it seems a good amount.

    Other than that could it just be with your new manifold you air purging the exhaust of a load of soot?? The EGR issue suggest it's more of a lack of air issue though to me.
    The black smoke is constant and has been for weeks so if it was just the exhaust clearing out then it should have done it by now. My plan is to take an intercooler out of my Vectra B, with some modded hoses and run the car to see how it runs. The intercooler in my Vectra B is brand new so I am hoping this will help rule out the Vectra C intercooler. Hate to go to a lot of work and waste money on a new Intercooler when it could be fine.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats





    Default

    The black smoke as you know suggests you're running rich and so when the EGR is plugged in, it will re-circulate the dirtier than normal exhaust fumes and so the engine will run rough - i.e. you're not getting enough clean air into the cylinders as it is and the EGR recirculates the unburnt fuel and the problem only gets worse.

    So, either you've got too much fuel or not enough air. You've already checked out many of the likely suspects, so here's a few more I can think of...
    1. Injector(s) knackered & hence too much fuel.
    2. Timing not correct causing fuel to be injected at the wrong time - cam shaft sensor misbehaving?
    3. Cylinder valve leakage / timing - could be valve stem leakage, seat leakage or badly worn cam shaft (hence valves not closing completely).

    Hopefully though you will find something simpler in the intake system. Still, it may be worth getting a compression/leakdown test done, especially if you can find someone to do it for a small fee.

  5. #5
    Regular Member StephSCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Vectra C

    Trim : Hatchback

    Engine : 1.9cdti

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 146275

    Default

    Funny thing is I never had the black smoke before I changed the manifold, but I did notice that someone had the EGR and the Swirl Flap actuator cable connectors round the wrong way, so neither were working.

    I have had a problem where it loses power once engine reaches normal working temperature and since I have purchased the diagnostic tool I am now getting an error. I am being told I have an air leak. So I am going to take off the timing belt, make sure the timing marks are spot on, whilst I have the belt off I am going to put the old inlet manifold on as the swirl flaps are fine.

    Once I do this and rebuild it and still get the black smoke I am going to use the intercooler off of my Vectra B, which I am stripping for spares, use some modified hosing and try that, if the black smoke stops then I know it is the intercooler. The hoses have all been heavily gaffa taped up and air tested using air pressure and smoke to see for leaks and each hose is fine.

    If none of that works then I got to go down the road of what you said, which is going to be extremely expensive if it is injectors.

    Thanks for your reply

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats





    Default

    I wouldn't touch the injectors until you have at least had a compression/leakdown test done. Also seems odd that the problem has appeared when you know you've had the intake system fiddled with - coincidence? Or something to do with the fitting of the new manifold? Why did you change the manifold in the first place? Swirls?

  7. #7
    Full Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    N/A
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Golf 7

    Trim : GTD

    Engine : 2.0 TDI 184PS

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 40000

    Default

    Has the swirl flap actuator been connected up to the manifold? I ask as in theory the engine smokes more lower down the revs if the valves are open. It will smoke more at higher RPM's if the swirl flaps are closed. In both cases under hard accelerations. Theory for them smoking more under load at lower rpms is due to the EGR valve (usually upto about 2,000rpm). The smoking due to closed swirl flaps and hence at higher rpms on hard acceleration is due to a richer air to fuel ratio diesels have at higher revs. This would only be made more prominent by closed valves as they are restricting the engine's breathing.
    Last edited by GazVXLINE170; 15th February 2013 at 23:38.

  8. #8
    Regular Member StephSCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Vectra C

    Trim : Hatchback

    Engine : 1.9cdti

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 146275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselWig View Post
    I wouldn't touch the injectors until you have at least had a compression/leakdown test done. Also seems odd that the problem has appeared when you know you've had the intake system fiddled with - coincidence? Or something to do with the fitting of the new manifold? Why did you change the manifold in the first place? Swirls?
    I changed the manifold after reading all the posts about the problems I was having, I did the EGR cleaning and all that and still had the same problem, so I settled for a new Inlet manifold and EGR, it wasn't until re-fitting everything that I noticed that the EGR only had 2 pins but the plug had 6 with 4 wires, and the swirl actuator had 4 pins but plug had 6 with 2 cables, so I switched them and ran a test using the Diagnostic and I saw the swirl flaps move and for the first time when I ran the EGR test I noticed that the rod from the EGR solenoid was solid, turned off test and it went soft and easily movable. It has been since then I have had loads of smoke.


    Quote Originally Posted by GazCDTI150 View Post
    Has the swirl flap actuator been connected up to the manifold? I ask as in theory the engine smokes more lower down the revs if the valves are open. It will smoke more at higher RPM's if the swirl flaps are closed. In both cases under hard accelerations. Theory for them smoking more under load at lower rpms is due to the EGR valve (usually upto about 2,000rpm). The smoking due to closed swirl flaps and hence at higher rpms on hard acceleration is due to a richer air to fuel ratio diesels have at higher revs. This would only be made more prominent by closed valves as they are restricting the engine's breathing.

    The flaps are definatly moving as I have watched as my wife has revved the car and I can see them move, if I rev the car slowly I get minimal smoke, if I rev hard from idle I get Huge cloud of smoke, from 3000rpm and a hard rev same cloud of smoke, but it will sit at just under 5000rpm with no smoke easily.

    I am so tired of this that I am just going to revert the car back to how it was, put old manifold on, strip down throttle body make sure the flap is not catching on anything but make sure the actuator and EGR are both connected correctly and if that fails, then I am going to do my modded intercooler job, it is the only fault I am getting, everything is clear. I spoke to my local Vauxhall specialist, not a stealer, and he said it does sound like a burst intercooler hose or the intercooler itself.

    Thanks everyone for your replies, I am going to replace the new manifold with old one, good job I kept it as the swirl flaps work fine on it. If I fix this whole mess I will let you all know...

  9. #9
    Full Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    N/A
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Golf 7

    Trim : GTD

    Engine : 2.0 TDI 184PS

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 40000

    Default

    May well be an intercooler issue. I know after I messed about with the EGR valve on my old one a few years ago it exposed a boost leak - split intercooler. Lots of black smoke.

  10. #10
    Regular Member StephSCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Luton
    Problems Posted
    0
    Problems Solved
    0
    Best Answers
    0
    Good Answers
    0
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vehicle InfoStats

    Vehicle : Vectra C

    Trim : Hatchback

    Engine : 1.9cdti

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 146275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GazCDTI150 View Post
    May well be an intercooler issue. I know after I messed about with the EGR valve on my old one a few years ago it exposed a boost leak - split intercooler. Lots of black smoke.
    Yeah actually removing old one from my Vectra B right now, I know it's not the same size but it will still allow me to rule out the one on the Vectra C

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Cam belt and water pump
    By tommythomson12 in forum Vectra C / Signum Car Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 7th August 2013, 15:06
  2. Inlet manifold,cambelt,water pump DONE
    By Mattysricdti in forum General Motoring Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 3rd February 2013, 22:01
  3. Does cambelt and water pump have to be done with inlet manifold
    By marky2027 in forum Vectra C / Signum Car Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 14th March 2011, 22:55
  4. 2004 1.9 CDTI Timing Belt & Inlet Manifold
    By wickedwillie in forum Vectra C / Signum Car Chat
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 7th November 2010, 18:42
  5. Cam belt+water pump?
    By Martinlw in forum Engine & Drivetrain
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 13th October 2009, 18:55

Visitors found this page by searching for:

Nobody landed on this page from a search engine, yet!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •