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Thread: 2003 3.0L cdti Signum stuttering.....

  1. #1
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    Default 2003 3.0L cdti Signum stuttering.....

    Have been reading on here of the various fuelling failings of the 3.0L engine and had my fingers crossed it was going to avoid me but...

    Filled up at an Esso / Tescos (yep was a muppet and wouldn't have done but it was desperate for fuel) not the usual Ultimate/Excellium i usually chuck in and 20 mins later had stuttering shuddering on acceleration in pretty much all gears.

    Gave my usual small garage a bell who advised me to put in a fuel additive (diesel redex) and when the tank was empty to fill up with the usual "super" diesel and keep my fingers crossed it would sort it.

    Well suffice to say there was improvement after filling up with the non super market fuel but it didn't go away but gets worse the higher gear I use (not at all in first, occasionally in second, can catch it in third and always from 4th upwards - 6th is unusable for accelleration) - so got it booked into the garage today for a code read and diagnostic.

    Well the guy has had a look and said there's no fault codes, no split hoses and is at a bit of a loss as to what the true cause of the problem may be.

    Discussed with him the various threads I've read on here Re loose timing elts, SCV and fuel pumps. He's confident it's not the belt as it would be the same in all gears and feels it will be fuel related.

    His advice was drive it sensible and don't welly it (like i would do otherwise) and bring it back when it chucks up a warning light otherwise it could be a case of just chucking money at it till success is met and that is not sensible.

    I am missing my rocketship so any thoughts as to what else it could be or alternative courses of action would be appreciated (short of trading it in or some other method of disposal as I really do love it when it is flying).

    oops my apologies should have posted in the technical section! - if a mod could move it i would appreciate it!
    Last edited by Minuteman; 21st December 2009 at 16:36. Reason: oops wrong section

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    Regular Member Big Knox's Avatar
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    a 20003 Signum, cool, does it hover or have a flux capacitor?

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    Full Member Big Sig's Avatar
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    Sounds like it could be the injectors and/or the SCV's. We'll wait to see what other people think too.
    Now I need a turbo to keep up!

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    Regular Member Danialj32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Knox View Post
    a 20003 Signum, cool, does it hover or have a flux capacitor?

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    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman View Post
    gets worse the higher gear I use (not at all in first, occasionally in second, can catch it in third and always from 4th upwards - 6th is unusable for accelleration) - so got it booked into the garage today for a code read and diagnostic

    Well the guy has had a look and said there's no fault codes, no split hoses and is at a bit of a loss as to what the true cause of the problem may be
    What mileage is the car on?
    Has the EMS been updated (field remedy 1057)?

    If it is the SCV at fault, and the EMS has not been udpated, then you won't get a fault code (as it is an inknown fault code)
    This won't get a response from the EMS until the fuel reading is below the meter on the high pressure fuel pump, once that happens the EMS light comes on (with no code and reads "unknown fuel pump error")

    You really need to wait until the fault goes from erratic to permanent
    Any good diesel mechanic should be able to diagnose this with ease
    My dealership took a guess, they were close but wrong!
    However, once correctly diagnosed on the second visit, as by then the EMS fault had activated, the replacement SCV was indeed the cause and by then the fault was permanent

    Try this...
    Drive up to 30mph, put the car in 4th gear, activate cruise control
    The engine should work without any problem
    Change down to 3rd gear and drive at 40mph, activate cruise control
    The engine should now hesitate eventually and the cruise control will switch off

    Initially the problem appears between 2500 and 4000rpm
    In low revs it appears to disappear
    As the problem gets worse the lower rev limit gets lower, typically starting at 2000rpm
    Mine was eventually down to 1500rpm, with maximum 2500rpm

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    Regular Member robster23's Avatar
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    Theres a few threads on this. I have the same motor except 53 plate. I am using some of the medium expensive fuel / ignition cleaners from Halfrauds which seems to help.

    Definately worth a poke as the scv etc costs an absolute fortune in labour.

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    Default Flux capacitor has been isolated...

    Thanks for the suggestions folks, I've been reading all scv related threads (including the 24 page main one in engine & drivetrain) and slowly accepting the probability that it is the scv's.

    Don't know if the EMS been updated (field remedy 1057) as I have avoided the main dealer for servicing as previous experience of main dealers has been pricey and poor service (from both Toyota and VW not VX, but once bitten twice shy).

    I've only had it 3 months and it has had 1 service so far from my usual small garage (who is very good BTW - in the last 10 years he's done both mine and the other half's motors and always sorted any issues accurately and cheaply). Previously the Signum was flawless I've done 12K in it in the last 3 Months and every mile has been lovely (I do 30 - 40K annually), currently it's on 84K seemingly it's around this mileage that the scv's fail so another indicator this is the most likely fault

    Will try the above Re speed, gear selection and cruise control tomorrow and will pop down to Halfrauds for some more fuel system cleaner - last tankfull had "Redex fuel system cleaner" in it with no improvement (fourth tank this week- always tickles me to hear the term "carbon footprint" when i listen to the news)

    From reading the threads it seems like process of elimination may be better to start sooner rather than later to avoid potential rapid wear to the DMF from the problem so maybe it's not so daft to start trying to sort this sooner rather than later and I'll just have to grin and bear the cost implications as a stitch in time may save nine and all that...

    I appreciate the help folks will let you know how it goes and what the costs were - any more suggestions (including reducing those costs) welcomed!

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    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman View Post
    From reading the threads it seems like process of elimination may be better to start sooner rather than later to avoid potential rapid wear to the DMF from the problem so maybe it's not so daft to start trying to sort this sooner rather than later and I'll just have to grin and bear the cost implications as a stitch in time may save nine and all that...
    I'm not aware of any such engine probelm affecting the DMF
    The main issue is the clutch
    I had previously reported a problem with mine, very intermittent
    Right after the engine was fixed the "clutch slip" became almost permanent, and took the clutch with it
    There is also a field remedy about that too, relates to incorrect lubrication during construction, which makes sense as mine was doing it from shortly after I had the car and was very difficult to replicate (mostly when flooring it for required acceleration, but only getting bundles of revs!)

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    Default Wear and tear.

    Quote Originally Posted by m8internet View Post
    I'm not aware of any such engine probelm affecting the DMF
    The main issue is the clutch
    I had previously reported a problem with mine, very intermittent
    Right after the engine was fixed the "clutch slip" became almost permanent, and took the clutch with it
    There is also a field remedy about that too, relates to incorrect lubrication during construction, which makes sense as mine was doing it from shortly after I had the car and was very difficult to replicate (mostly when flooring it for required acceleration, but only getting bundles of revs!)
    Read it on a thread in the engine & drivetrain section (can't get the thread number otherwise i would link to it)

    Made sense to me whilst reading it that additional stresses - stuttering/juddering being effectively the rapid application and removal of force in the power transmission route and the reason for DMF's being developed to smooth this out in torquey engines, would cause accelerated wear in the drivetrain, specifically the DMF.

    Every way I am looking at this i am seeing a large pit with a sign saying "pour money in here".....

    If owning a boat can be described as standing in a cold shower with all your clothes on stuffing £20 notes down the plug hole as fast as you can, owning a 3.0l Signum may be similar, only drier.

    Reads like quite a lot of folks on here have had the same expensive experiences.


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    Regular Member Celes's Avatar
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    Replace the fuel filter.

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