Diesel convert? Not yet anyway...

[wrightgj]

Hi all, hopefully this thread will start some healthy debate (no us and them please!!! ) regarding the Petrol/diesel thing.

I was under the impression that all the 'nasty' traits of the diesel engine had come a long way in recent years, but I have changed my mind after trying one out.

I own a 2.2 petrol 'C'. I like the way it drives, although the MPG is not brilliant.
Its been in the garage for a bit and I was given a 17 CDTi SRi Astra (new one) as a hire car.

For the 3 weeks I had it, I hated every minute of driving it for the following reasons:

1. The performance was hideous until the turbo kicked in. We're talking major problems pulling out of junctions etc. In the end, I found myself revving it up everytime i pulled away, just to get the thing moving. Once the turbo was going, everything was okay, as long as you changed up in the turbo band. I'd just about got the hang of it by the time the three weeks was up, but I found the drive less than relaxing (maybe that's a trait of the turbo, rather than the diesel.)

2. The noise from the diesel engine was appauling, even from the inside. Driving around my work's car park at about 5-10 miles per hour sounded like I was in a sherman tank. It was actually making people turn round to see what all the fuss was about!

3. I found the engine vibrated much more than my 2.2 unit. Not half as smooth.

4. The thing smelt horrible, just like a DAF truck. Lovely puffs of occasional black smoke as well

5. The fuel consumption was not brill at about 35 mpg (this was around the houses). although admittedly, this is the diesels strongest selling point as far as I can tell. I get about 25 out of my 2.2

When i took it back and got my 2.2 back, I couldn't believe the difference. No noise, smooth engine, nice smooth torque pickup and no more problems with people looking over their shoulder in the car park . It was just a more more relaxed and enjoyable drive. I could actually roll the windows down and sit in traffic withour having to pump the stereo up to drown the rattling out.

So, i'm sticking with petrol.. Although I'd love to hear the views of people who have been driving diesels for a while.

G

[AJA]

My initial reason for buying a diesel was the fact that I work 35 miles away from my home, and mostly a motorway drive. (6 junctions up the M62). So Diesel was my obvious choice.

I didn't realise how impressed I'd be with the new CDTi's from Vauxhall. Firstly I'm easily now getting over 45mpg of mixed driving (mostly 50mpg), which I'm very happy with considering the performance I'm getting as well.

With regards to the Astra you were loaned from Vx - This is not as refined and the Veccy C's and you tend to hear and feel every bump. My sister has a brand new Astra SRi 1.8 and she says she has to rev the balls out it to get anywhere as well, so it's not just the diesels. You had a 1.7 cdti, which I think is only 100bhp, so about the same as a 1.6 petrol, enough said.

Admittedly my CDTi is a little noisy first thing in the morning, but quietens down after about 5 miles. All I can hear then is the whistle of the turbo. B E A utiful.

Motorway driving - effortless is the only way to describe it. I can leave it in sixth to pull away from most cars and overtaking, but if I really want to pull away I drop her into fifth, then it's bye bye GTi.

I have to admit that the petrol models are very smooth, but I can't handle the fuel consumption and the lack of torque.

Just my opinion guys & gals. Let's keep it friendly, eh?

[Andy]

im maybe in a strong position to offer a comparsion as ive just come from a 2.2 sri petrol to a 1.9cdti (150) elite. Both cars are the same 'model', and both ofer approx the same power output and performance on paper.

The most important thing to note is that you cant drive both cars the same way. The Petrol likes to be revved. To get any real power for overtaking you need to drop it a gear and take it over 4K to 5800rpm. The diesel is the other way around. As long as it on boost, approx 1500rpm+ it will take off, but then runs out of revs at 4K.

Did the astra have a 6 speed box? if it didnt its incredibly long geared. A mate has a 1.7Cdti astra estate and its not in the same league as the 150 1.9, like your sunday league footy team playing against chelsea. Foot to the floor and nothing happens.

I have noticed the sluggish performance off boost though, particulary pulling out of junctions or into into side roads etc. Its like a fiat 126 until the boost comes in, which isnt long, then its off like a rocket. Ive actually found myself flying along, not realising how fast im going as the engine is so effortless on boost. Something i need to be careful of.

Im still getting used to the way they both drive (i still have my sri petrol till it sells) but im starting to prefer the 1.9 for the effortless way it cruises along, yet takes off when overtaking without having to drop a gear. The offboost thing is a pain, but im slowly starting to learn to drive around it.

The economy is much as i expected though....ive gone from 26.5mpg urban in the 2.2 petrol to 43.2mpg in my 1.9 on the same route to work. Thats one of the main purposes of me buying a diesel so im glad its paying off.

oh alex.... i admit i doubted all the talk of the turbo whistle having heard my mates astra, which is hardly noticable. The 1.9 whistle is louder than any other standard turbo car ive ever heard!

[wrightgj]

Andy,

I think you're spot on with what you're saying, they drive opposites!

I agree maybe the puny 1.7 Astra was maybe not the best comparison, as it lacks overall 'punch', but that's what they gave me to drive from the garage.

I imagine maybe the 'insulation' on the astra isn't quite up to the vectras, as alot of noise from the engine gets into the drivers ****pit. Like I say, with the windows down its a real bind.

Cheers
g

[wrightgj]

oops, I didn'e realise it was a rude word. maybe I should have said cabin!!!

[Andy]

I dont how much this has to do with it, but whenever i drive another car, i just cant get comfy. It feels awkward, clumsy, and it takes a while for me to settle in. The loan corsas they give me are unbelievably naff, I just hate them, despite me owning a corsa myself before my first veccy.

Even getting into my elite on monday, its taken me until today to find a position im happy with. In the end all it needed was the wheel pulling towards me a bit. It just felt 'wrong' until i did that.

[installer]

I`ve owned petrol and diesel I owned this until recently -



It was 175bhp @ hubs approx 220bhp + @flywheel.It would rev to 6600 rpm no prob was a bit of a monster really.Gave me on combined tank 230 ish miles.

It was a vectra and thats all I can compare between the two.I now own SRi Estate 1.9CDTi (150).Also own Mondeo Zetec Estate 2.0 TDCi (130).So I to have some idea on petrol v diesel.
As Andy says-
"The most important thing to note is that you cant drive both cars the same way."
They are TOTALLY different driving styles so to speak,personally I can`t see how you can compare diesel and petrol.They are like chalk and cheese.Diesels won`t go much past 4.500 rpm.My V6 vectra above would go past ALL speed limits in 2nd gear.The diesel to get to 60-70 mph is 4th gear really .
Also fuel economy I was getting 22 - 26 mpg combined in V6 now in diesel I`m getting 40 -42 mpg,nearly double.
Yep it`s dull when you try to pull off (but as I`ve said thats a diesel you can`t compare) until you get used to the characteristics of the diesel when it`s turbo on song where it`ll pull best from etc.Also the 150`s are no slow coaches my wife was screaming at me when I took it out for a test drive,she and me think in gear it ain`t far off my V6 but IN GEAR not pulling off etc.Before you know it your at speed limits etc in diesel.Slow in gear NO.
Noise wise until it`s warm it can be clattery but dosen`t bother me.TBH it`s noiser than my mondeo until it warms up then it`s fine.
Smell wise mine dosen`t smell at all of oil etc - which is the stereo typical diesel.
So I love mine and wouldn`t swap it at all,even for a V6 now.
As I`ve said petrol and diesel is like comparing chalk and cheese.

[wrightgj]

Installer,

You are right. Chalk and cheese. I was just Intrigued as to why so many people are swapping to cheese from the chalk

I understand maybe a while back when there were decent tax breaks for them, but now the price of diesel has rocketted and the company car thing isn't so much an issue, I'm surprised the 'revolution' is still going apace.

Second hand diesels seem to also cost 1000-2000 more than their petrol counterparts. I just don't get it!

cheers
G

[installer]

Installer,

You are right. Chalk and cheese. I was just Intrigued as to why so many people are swapping to cheese from the chalk

I understand maybe a while back when there were decent tax breaks for them, but now the price of diesel has rocketted and the company car thing isn't so much an issue, I'm surprised the 'revolution' is still going apace.

Second hand diesels seem to also cost 1000-2000 more than their petrol counterparts. I just don't get it!

cheers
G

Fuel price wise , in the V6 I only used Shell Optimax and cost me £45 ish to tank her and get 22 + mpg
Now in the diesel I only use Shell Diesel Extra and cost me £45 ish to fill her up and get 40 + mpg.
Tax and stuff etc for private buyer are small gains over petrol the biggest difference is fuel - I`ve halved my monthly fuel bill.
Also diesel`s can be more to buy than petrols,they can be 10 a penny.So for some the equivalent in diesel is too much money.As u say £1000 - £2000 more which can be alot and the real massive gain is fuel costs.Thats all really.

[grumpano]

Same here with the slow speed away from junctions etc, you just have to drive it differently thats all. But when the turbo kicks in it flys past everything! I wonder if the problem is sorted after fitting a tuning box thingy?
My friend has just bought a new Masda MX5, it felt so slow after driving mine, and its only the 120 bhp CDTI.