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Thread: Driver gets Redlight ticket for making way for 999 Police vehicle

  1. #1
    Regular Member 67688c's Avatar
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    Default Driver gets Redlight ticket for making way for 999 Police vehicle

    Reported the other day in the Tameside Advertiser is the story of a driver who moved into a Redlight controlled junction to allow a speeding 999 Police van to get through. A few days later he was stunned to find a NIP (Notice of Intent to Prosecute) drop through his letterbox. After requesting the photos of the infringement he says you can clearly see the Police Van passing him in the junction.

    The driver when contesting the ticket says that the Central Ticket Office told him he should not have moved. Is this another case of Jobsworth? What would the guy have said if it the Police had been speeding to investigate a break-in at his house? There is clearly a case for common sense to prevail and this does not seem to have happened in this case.

    The Tameside Advertiser report:

    Taken from the Tameside Advertiser

    [I]999 call sparks red light row

    August 05, 2009

    A DRIVER who pulled forward at a red light to let a police van pass has been hit with a ticket – for jumping the light.

    Phillip Lilley was waiting at traffic lights on Manchester Road, Droylsden, when he saw the van behind him with its sirens blaring heading from Ashton towards the crossroads.

    On instinct, the 36-year-old edged forward so the police could get through.

    But he was left stunned a few days later when he received a letter to say he had been caught on camera jumping the lights and was slapped with a £60 fine and three penalty points.
    Phillip, a car mechanic, says he drives the same way up to eight times a day so knows the junction well.

    He is now disputing the fine after requesting a copy of the picture, taken by the camera at the traffic lights, which shows his car and the police van as it passed him.

    He said: "The guy in front of me pulled right out into the junction so I followed him. What am I supposed to do, just stay there and not move? I crossed the line 33 seconds after the lights turned to red, I was only doing 12 miles per hour and my brake lights were on. I asked for the picture the camera had taken and the police car is clearly in view but I spoke to the Central Ticket Office and they said I shouldn’t have moved."

    Phillip, of Easton Road, Droylsden, is now concerned that drivers who moved out of the way with him will also have got tickets. He added: "They may not remember – how many sets of traffic lights do you go through in a day? Even if they do they may not request the picture and if they do the police car may not be visible. My concern is how many other people it’s happened to. If that’s standard practice then the next time I’m sitting at the traffic lights and an emergency vehicle comes, I’m not moving."

    The fine came just days after Phillip had overturned a similar ticket issued when the lights were out of order. They were replaced by a temporary set but the cameras had been left on.

    Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership would not comment on Phillip’s case but said emergency vehicle drivers were trained to manoeuvre around other cars.
    Last edited by 67688c; 14th August 2009 at 11:03.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Big Knox's Avatar
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    Hopefully if he goes to court to contest it, he'll get a judge with an ounce of common sense who'll throw the ticket out.

    I had something similar a few years ago. Was sitting at a barrier-less level crossing which is right beside a station. The train was sitting in the station and the lights were going on the level crossing. nothing happened for ages and eventually the driver of the train got out and started waving traffic through. The car facing the opposite direction to me went through and suddenly there was a bright FLASH FLASH. I thought "sod that", they'll ticket me and I'll have no end of hassle so instead I did a 3 point turn and went back down the road and took an alternative route.

    I would ALWAYS pull out of the way for an emergency service vehicle. Seconds can make the difference between life and death and you don't know what sort of call they are responding to.

  3. #3
    Ex Vec-C Admin Deztroyer's Avatar
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    Default

    as an ex copper when driving on blues and twos i was always pleased if drivers did move out of our my way at junctions and whilst progressing through traffic - but it seems a shame when the evidence is this clear that someone is willing to assist in this manner that he is deemed to be breaking the law - i know that traffic offences such as speeding and jumping red lights are absolute offences you are either breaking the law or you are not but the police driver would have had to slow down and progress though the junction slowly and i'm sure if the van hadnt have moved off and given him space to pass - he would have probably had a visit at a later date for "obtruction of the highway" or another similar offence - he's hopefully going to have the driver of the patrol car on his side - this is just madness and one of the main reasons why i stopped doing a job i loved because the worlds going mad

    0-Large smile ......every time it's driven

  4. #4
    Regular Member 67688c's Avatar
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    Legally however, you should only move out the way of an emergency 999 vehicle if you can safely do so without breaking any traffic law or cause any danger.

    In reality of course we all try and make a clear route so they can get through, I have however seen some real stupid behavour by some drivers, almost as in a total panic, they have even caused accidents. Even saw one old dear years ago once mount the central reservation of a duel carriagway which was blocked with traffic so she ended up on the other side.

    Sometimes I think emergency vehicles can overdo it, and I often wonder if the young constable in the police car with everything blasting away really needs to get to where he is going that fast.

    Does make you sometimes wonder, (are we still alowed to have thoughts in the UK... not sure...lol) regardless, all one can do is get out of the way as safely as possible. (if its possible to do so)

    How many times afterwards after the emergency vehicle has passed have you seen the area look like carnage, with several vehicles trapped in the box section, especially when lights change, and some stuck half on pavements. etc.
    Last edited by 67688c; 14th August 2009 at 11:37.

  5. #5
    spoons
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    Default

    I've heard of this before... technically you should not cross the stop line...

    I've seen emergency vehicles approaching stopped traffic before and turned off their sirens and waited as its absolutely obvious nobody could have moved...

    But emergency services being able to pressurise their way through traffic causing people to break the law or damage their cars is also debateble and controversial...

    If its an ambulance or fire engine I would move without doubt... anything else... hmmm.....

  6. #6
    Regular Member Penfold101's Avatar
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    The question is would you move if you knew it was going to your house - it almost makes you start playing god with people's lives if you decide you're not going to move out of the way of the fire engine or the ambulance.

    And what would you do if you later found out it was your family it was going to help...

  7. #7
    Regular Member 67688c's Avatar
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    Quite right,

    In reality we have to assume that every case is a life threatening one where seconds may count, and so, warrants the lights and sirens.

    As someone who has had to use the emergency services of a high speed ambulance after suffering Heart Attacks, where seconds can count, I have no hesitation of clearing the way for them, if I can do so safely.

    I suspect however there may be cases where the police use them, that may not always be warranted.
    Certainly in cases when we lived in Lancashire where I'd reported a crime taking place, and you would hear the police coming a mile away, resulting in the thugs doing a runner as soon as they heard them. Almost as though the Police are trying to frighten them away before they get there, rather than apprehending them.

    Surely if you want to catch someone you would use a silent approach.

    Merely an observation.
    Last edited by 67688c; 14th August 2009 at 12:07.

  8. #8
    spoons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penfold101 View Post
    The question is would you move if you knew it was going to your house
    Trust me... If I knew it was going to my house, I wouldnt be stopped at the traffic lights myself, and it wouldnt keep up with me either, blue lights or no blue lights

    Quote Originally Posted by Penfold101 View Post
    ...it almost makes you start playing god with people's lives if you decide you're not going to move out of the way of the fire engine or the ambulance.
    Dont agree,

    How would you feel if a car crossed the white line to make way for an Emergency Services vehicle hit a motorcyclist crossing its path on a green light !!

    The ONLY thing in all of this is COMMON SENSE.. and the LAW doesnt use COMMON SENSE cos its a variable

  9. #9
    Regular Member Big Knox's Avatar
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    surely if the police van is in the photo then it was actually it that set the camera off rather than the "civilian" car?

  10. #10
    Regular Member s1nglef1sh's Avatar
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    Thw hole saga is absolutely ridiculous...hope the guy gets it quoshed

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