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Thread: Anybody know the gearbox ratio for the F40 box in the VXR ?

  1. #1
    Regular Member MrLOL's Avatar
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    Default Anybody know the gearbox ratio for the F40 box in the VXR ?

    ive asked this over at vxronline, but nobody seems to know

    Ive had a dyno done, that made bang on stock power. 276.5bhp (stock is 276.3 )

    But im worried because it was done in 5th. If 5th gear ratio is considerably more than 1;1, it could mean its not making stock power at all.

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    Regular Member BigP's Avatar
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    This any good mate:

    Transmission
    Six speed manual gearbox
    1st - 3.77:1
    2nd - 2.04:1
    3rd - 1.37:1
    4th - 1.05:1
    5th - 0.85:1
    6th - 0.71:1
    Final drive - 3.55:1

    Taken from the 2008 Models Edition VXR brochure.

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    Regular Member solorider's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Insignia

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 2.0cdti 160bhp

    Year : 2010

    Mileage : 92274

    Default

    the ratios are
    1st 3.77
    2nd 2.04
    3rd 1.36
    4th 1.05
    5th 0.85
    6th 0.71
    rev 3.54

    taken from TIS

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    How does a Ferrari mid engined gearbox fit in a Vectra?

  5. #5
    Full Member Big Sig's Avatar
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    Looks like it should have been done in 4th then
    Now I need a turbo to keep up!

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    Regular Member VXR_DV's Avatar
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    I'm completely confused as to what this conversation is about.

    An engine doesn't somehow "know" what gear the gearbox it's connected to is in, any more than it knows how many gro-bags are in the boot.

    It only knows how fast it is going, and how much load it is under.

    The bhp power (measured at the flywheel) is a function of flywheel speed and load applied. Similarly, if measured at the wheels, there will be some additional losses from the drivetrain to factor in, but it's still entirely possible to be generating 280bhp continuously in first gear (well, it would be, if the tyres didn't shred themselves on the rollers and the gearbox didn't explode).

    dv.

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    Regular Member Hideous's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Insignia

    Trim : SRi Nav

    Engine : CDTI158

    Year : 2012

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    "One-car" dyno tests aren't very accurate, to be honest. You can't be sure about the accuracy of the test bed; it can only be a rough guide to the power output - unless you have something else to compare (say, some friends' cars tested on the same day -- you may have done this, just a general comment).
    Otherwise, rolling roads might give you a rough figure to the nearest 20 bhp or so, but you never can tell.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MrLOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VXR_DV View Post
    I'm completely confused as to what this conversation is about.

    An engine doesn't somehow "know" what gear the gearbox it's connected to is in, any more than it knows how many gro-bags are in the boot.

    It only knows how fast it is going, and how much load it is under.

    The bhp power (measured at the flywheel) is a function of flywheel speed and load applied. Similarly, if measured at the wheels, there will be some additional losses from the drivetrain to factor in, but it's still entirely possible to be generating 280bhp continuously in first gear (well, it would be, if the tyres didn't shred themselves on the rollers and the gearbox didn't explode).

    dv.
    ive always been told that you need to RR in the gear closest to 1:1, any different for this and the results will be out

    but having done some more reading, the type of dyno that was used on the day was a maha one, which calculates the drag on coastdown from the peak RPM / speed used on the dyno run, back to rest

    Thus any increased or decreased drag caused by using a gear less/more than 1:1 will be measured on coastdown, and no matter what gear was used on the run, will give the same flywheel figures.

    Presume the "must be run cloest to 1:1" thing is for dynos that dont measure the drag on coast down to compensate the results accordingly.

  9. #9
    Regular Member VXR_DV's Avatar
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    Ok, that makes more sense, although "any gear other than 1:1 will make the results MORE out" might be a better way of putting it. Any process that estimates the drivetrain losses without trying to measure them is going to be a bit of a fudge - sounds like that maha dyno might be more accurate than some.

    Anyway, isn't your concern the wrong way round?

    If it's making 276.5bhp at the wheels AND whirling round lots of intermediate gears in the gearbox, doesn't that mean the true figure is a bit higher?

    ###
    Ive had a dyno done, that made bang on stock power. 276.5bhp (stock is 276.3 )

    But im worried because it was done in 5th. If 5th gear ratio is considerably more than 1;1,
    ###
    Last edited by VXR_DV; 5th May 2009 at 00:30.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MrLOL's Avatar
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    Heres the actual graph



    Couple of things. The myth that the "power at the wheels" figure is accurate, and the power at the fly figure is just randomly calculated guesswork is wrong. THis very much depends on the dyno.

    Unlike dynojet and other dynos, the maha uses 2 contact patches per wheel. THis results in a low power at the wheels figure (mine is only 195bhp). But once the run is done, the maha dyno lets the car coast back down to rest, and calculates the drag throughout the rev range.

    This is a much more accurate way of measuring, as drag increases exponentially with RPM of the wheels.

    With the maha, if you run the car with a considerably lower or higher gear than 1:1, it will effect the power at the wheels figure due to increased or decreased drag. BUT, the maha dyno measures this, meaning a dyno run in 4th and a dyno run in 5th will provide different "power at the wheel" figures, but because the drag is different for the different gears, and this is measured on coastdown, the power at the fly figure will be the same for both runs.

    You can ignore my original question, since i better understand how the dyno used works, and im confident now that its claim in running stock power (or thereabouts) is fine.

    for the record, the graph was obtained using just one gear - 5th.

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