I did an interesting test this afternoon.

**Maverick** · 20th April 2006, 19:58

Following on from the news that Vectra (Non V6) does not have TC as standard anymore (Due to advance's in chassis development etc on the new model) I decided to carry out a test on the old and new.

The test cars were my new Facelift Vectra 1.9 CDTi 150 and my old SRi 1.9 CDTi 150 (As my brother now owns it)

OK mine has done less miles, but his has just had 4 brand new new dampers fitted as he will be towing with it and he is a bit OTT with these sort of things. It is worth noting that my old car is kiited out with the suspension and steering mods required for 18" and 19" wheels due to it having 18" wheels originally from the factory.

To make things fair I put all 4 of my 19's on his car and took it for a 'quick' run round the local bypass in the wet (within local speed limits). I then put the wheels on my car and did the same. There was some interesting differences between the two cars.

With my old pre face lift car, going into the island the car does try to initially understeer which starts to trigger the TC and there was a couple of TC light flashes, upon exiting the island the TC light goes mad as it is not getting the grip it wants. Also the steering lacks the feedback you would expect and feels a little detached from the chassis. The only way I can explain it, it feels like you turn the steering wheel then the car turns.

On the second run, I tried a more faster flowing entry and exit from the same island and the back was getting very twitchy and stepped out with a slight bit of over steer. But over all I thought a very good and competant car.

So with the new facelift SRi, doing the same runs at the same speeds and the roads maybe a slight bit wetter.

Going into the island, instantly the steering is more sharp and instant and not a slight bit of understeer, the front end just gripped going in and not a hint of wheels spin coming out, the whole car was more composed throughout which gave me more confidence.

2nd run, as before another fast flowing entry and exit, again more grip and not a slight step out of the rear end, I went back to try and to get the back to step out like the old car, I had to go just under 10mph faster around the island to upset the rear end, which was still not bad enough to worry.

My conclusion, is that maybe Vauxhall have deleted TC as their work on the chassis has done the trick. Or could we look at this another way, with the old car, was TC added as because Vauxhall were not 100% happy with the chassis?

The confidence in the new car is far higher than the old one which I rated highly anyway. OK we have lost a few 'toy's but they have given us a better drivers car.

**AJA** · 20th April 2006, 20:08

Everyone who I've spoke to who's driven both cars agree with you that the driving dynamics of the facelift is a massive improvement over the pre facelift models.

But I would expect this as the facelift B was miles better than the pre facelift B.

It does make you wonder why these manufacturers can't get it right in the first place?

**Graeme** · 20th April 2006, 20:10

good test that matt. i was thinking about getting some facelift sri dampers and anti roll bars when i get my eibach springs but dont know if there are more mods they have made over and above that.

**Maverick** · 20th April 2006, 20:13

Originally Posted by AJA

Everyone who I've spoke to who's driven both cars agree with you that the driving dynamics of the facelift is a massive improvement over the pre facelift models.

But I would expect this as the facelift B was miles better than the pre facelift B.

It does make you wonder why these manufacturers can't get it right in the first place?

A manufacturer tries something and then after production starts and they start to build up a performance history they can see where to improve. Then keep all the improvements for a facelift model to make a bigger impact.

**Maverick** · 20th April 2006, 20:15

Originally Posted by Graeme

good test that matt. i was thinking about getting some facelift sri dampers and anti roll bars when i get my eibach springs but dont know if there are more mods they have made over and above that.

The new car has different spring and damper settings, all the bushes are different and also some of thesuspension components are made from different materials.

Not sure how a pre-facelift car would handle with only the facelift dampers and roll bars, it may handle worse?

I have to say that all is forgiven with the new car now, I was a bit put out with the kit that was removed but the under skin changes more than make up for it.

**Duncan** · 20th April 2006, 20:54

Originally Posted by Matt

So with the new facelift SRi, doing the same runs at the same speeds and the roads maybe a slight bit wetter.

Going into the island, instantly the steering is more sharp and instant and not a slight bit of understeer, the front end just gripped going in and not a hint of wheels spin coming out, the whole car was more composed throughout which gave me more confidence.

2nd run, as before another fast flowing entry and exit, again more grip and not a slight step out of the rear end, I went back to try and to get the back to step out like the old car, I had to go just under 10mph faster around the island to upset the rear end, which was still not bad enough to worry.

I'd agree with that Matt. I've found this facelift SRi 2.0T hire car I have goes in and out of roundabouts quite nicely. But, I think whatever they have done has been at the detriment of other handling.

Have you taken the car at speed through a sweeping bend? Or pushed it on a twisty road? It's here (as in my other thread) that I've found the handling rather disconcerting. Very twitchy going through bends, or steering into bends - be it under heavy braking or not. You'll see Steven (gil16e) had similar comments in my thread with his SRi facelift loan car.

I know this isn't directly related to TC, but is still the handling of the car nevertheless. I think (given the choice) I'd rather have a car that scrabbled a bit coming out of a roundabout, as opposed to one that was very twitchy on sweeping bends and country roads.

D

**Maverick** · 20th April 2006, 21:36

I have had my new one round Bruntingthorpe's circuit and I honestly thought is was pretty damn good, I would say the Vectra C handles better on 18's than 19's without a doubt, but one of the bends at Bruntingthorpe is a long sweeping bend of about 2-300m which you can take at about 90 mph at it was solid.

**Ian** · 20th April 2006, 21:43

I'll admit that I've not driven much of the prefacelift, but I can honestly say that I too find it almost impossible to get the TC working on mine. If I enter a corner too fast and it understeers slightly I touch the brakes which does make the back end a little twitchy but then thats my poor driving - too fast entry. Going round long bends I dont have a worry - the back end has never twitched, but then I do have TC which has on occasion flashed for a split second (light on - off) so maybe thats keeping the rear end at bay.

**Bainie** · 20th April 2006, 21:48

Don`t think TC is going to help you when you have time to watch and see if the light is coming on, the proof of the pudding is going to be when you lose control of the car and traction control grabs it for you again, all the suspension mods in the world wont help you if you hit a big puddle or some black ice ... Just my opinion anyhoo it`s not there to stop you spinning when you floor it off a roundabout, it`s there to help you when you have lost control, or prevent that happening in the first place ...

**Maverick** · 20th April 2006, 21:54

TC will never stop you losing control, it is purely to prevent wheel spin and nothing else. ESP (Electronic Stability Programme) is the system that helps out in the event of the car going into a spin.

ESP monitors each wheel and will help out but even this is not spin proof. The purpose of this thread was to see if taking off TC was a wise thing from Vauxhall, I would say they have suceeded.