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Thread: What is the 'design limit' of a 'transmission' ?

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    Default What is the 'design limit' of a 'transmission' ?

    I know we've been here before.But it's a genuine query with regards to having enquired about a remap.

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    Regular Member rushy's Avatar
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    Vehicle : SRi


    Engine : Z22SE (2.2 Petrol)

    Year : 2004

    Mileage : 137000

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    There is an old Thread from Spoons with that info in. It was a link to a GM site with all there specs. Think the V6 CDTi was right on the brink with a map.

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    M32 is rated to 320NM, F40 is 400NM. Generally most folks say the 1.9CDTi dual mass flywheel is the weakest part and can't cope with much more than 310lb-ft, which is over 400NM.

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    Regular Member nutron's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vauxhall

    Trim : very

    Engine : Z19DTH

    Year : Nosey

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    Well the fly wheel, gear box and clutch are all still fine in mine after over 400lbft going through them on NOS. We know this because they were all removed to change the engine which was not fine. The 1.9s clutch will start to slip around 330lbft, especially when hot. The 3ltr has a different clutch and can take more, As can the VXR. Don't know what the 2ltrs is like but I don't think you'll bust the clutch on that.

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    About to have new DMF and clutch fitted to car,which now makes it a good idea to keep the car a bit longer.So may have a remap done sometime in the new year.

    I contacted Torquing Bhp,who sent some details of their remap (225bhp 450Nm torque,reduced EGR duty cycle etc).But they are a good distance away from me.I did hear that there was a place in Huddersfield somewhere?

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    Regular Member john_k_sri's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra

    Trim : SRI NAV XP

    Engine : 1.9 CDTI 150

    Year : 2007

    Mileage : 72K

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    Quote Originally Posted by _ZS_ View Post
    M32 is rated to 320NM, F40 is 400NM. Generally most folks say the 1.9CDTi dual mass flywheel is the weakest part and can't cope with much more than 310lb-ft, which is over 400NM.
    According to VX, a standard 1.9CDTi 150 develops 236 lb/ft which is incidentally the same as my Stage 1 remapped 2.0T, which I believe has the same gearbox and flywheel. So there should not be a problem with 'boxed' or remapped CDTI 150's or remapped 2.0T's. That's good to know.

    I was under the impression that it is general industry practice for manufacturer testing to go a fair bit beyond published design limits.
    Last edited by john_k_sri; 25th December 2008 at 12:59. Reason: addition

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_k_sri View Post

    I was under the impression that it is general industry practice for manufacturer testing to go a fair bit beyond published design limits.
    So why publish 'rated' figures ?

    The facelift V6 Vectra diesel has a torque output that exactly matches the 'rating' of the gearbox (400Nm).Other manufacturers that also use the F40 gearbox also stick rigidly to the 400Nm limit (Alfa Romeo use it on their 2.4 210 bhp diesel,but restrict torque to 400Nm).

    There must be a reason why they do that?

    You will also have noticed that the new Insignia 'twin turbo' diesel also puts out 400Nm (highest torque output for that car).What's the betting that the new 2.9 diesel has a different gearbox or is auto only!
    Last edited by diesel dog; 25th December 2008 at 13:47.

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    Regular Member nutron's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vauxhall

    Trim : very

    Engine : Z19DTH

    Year : Nosey

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    The gearbox is rated to 400 but will have been tested well beyond that. The safety margine for an item depends on its importance obviously; a door handle will be tested to make sure it's not going to come off even if an escaped gorillor trys to open the door; a gearbox though is a heavily loaded and important item, as such it will be tested to 30% maybe more above the rated value. Another thing to take into acount is that although the engines are limited to 400NM, this is only done in software based on what an engine makes on a test bed. Some engines will produce more torque than the stated level and others less.... I've forgoten what my point was now... Never mind, Merry Christmas and don't blow your car up cos it costs lots of money.

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    Regular Member john_k_sri's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra

    Trim : SRI NAV XP

    Engine : 1.9 CDTI 150

    Year : 2007

    Mileage : 72K

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel dog View Post
    So why publish 'rated' figures ?
    Obviously to ensure that as many drivers as possible do not exceed what is known to be a safe torque limit and discourage drivers from exceeding that limit thus minimising potential gearbox failures. Could also be seen as 'arse-covering'

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    Regular Member Hideous's Avatar
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    Obviously, the gearbox is designed to cope with more torque than the "official" rated figure - when new. Probably designed in theory, to take much more than the rated figure before immediate failure. I have no idea how much more, and probably nobody on here will have that exact information.
    However, car components have to be incredibly durable - 200,000 miles is easily attainable for a good transmission at the standard engine output - but increase that output considerably, and you may find that it runs fine for a while, but will probably fail much earlier than the standard car eventually.
    That's just one of the disadvantages of tuning that everyone should be aware of.

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