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Thread: My East Rolling Road result graph

  1. #1
    [Ex]Admin Duncan's Avatar
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    Smile My East Rolling Road result graph

    Following on from Ian's results thread, the sharp-eyed will have noticed that my bhp was, well, not of a figure that may have been expected - came out at 215 when it should have been around 235bhp (BSR's figure) - and may have wondered if something was amiss with the car, or whether there were dubious RR results. Simple answer to both is no. I trust Track n' Roads results and there were a good number of results today exactly where you'd expect them to be, be they Stage 1 BSR 1.9's, 2.0T's, 888 1.9's or boxed etc.

    The problem with mine seemed to be simply down to the bl**dy Traction control still wanting to try and kick in at higher revs. As we know on a RR the front wheels are spinning, the rears don't, so the car thinks that it's wheel spinning madly and kicks in the TC. You can 'drive through it' until it appears to have disabled itself, but it can still apparently try and still re-engage as the system is still wondering is going on as the fronts are not just spinning a bit in relation to the rears, like if it was wheelspin on a road, they're spinning waaay faster than that.

    Steve said that as it approached around 4,500rpm he could feel the TC starting to fight, then when it hit around 4600rpm it simply wouldn't rev any further. In the past I've had the TC turned off with Tech 2 for rolling roads - I didn't this time as I thought I could just drive through it. Plasma's laptop with his Vaux-Com couldn't turn it off either, and I don't have a TC switch as I don't have the plug behind the blank, so no options to resolve it.

    The graph shows it a lot better than my waffling above!



    They overlaid the Stage 3 graphs onto the Stage 1 run I did at the same RR last year - Stage 3 is all the solid lines, Stage 1 is all the dotted lines.

    You can see the healthy dollop of extra torque (blue lines) that the Stage 3 has over the Stage 1. The peak figure was 281lb.ft and BSR's figure is around 273lb.ft so all matches up nicely. The torque reaches it's natural peak as that is reached much lower down in the rev range.

    On that bhp graph though you can see that the Stage 3 plot up until around 4500rpm is also significantly raised compared to the Stage 1 plot - it's only as it approaches the 4500rpm mark that it then tails off, when it should carry on above the Stage 1 plot. At around 4,600rpm the curve just changes suddenly to dead flat, like it's being clipped, and it was here that Steve said he felt the TC. You can see on the Stage 1 plot that it was getting it's peak bhp at 5,500 revs, this time the car wasn't revving anywhere near that - it still had another 1000 odd rpm that it could still go.

    So, I never got a true reading of what the bhp at the fly was, but never mind - next time I go to the RR I'll make sure I have TC tech 2'd off! I know the car on the road feels absolutely fine and the graphs show it's running nicely. Both torque and bhp graphs have a nice steep smooth climb, it's just the bhp one that then gets clipped.

    As Dean (Plasma) was there today, and he'd been in the car when AndrewTi took my car for a spin that time back, I got him to jump in the car with Don Paul in the back (so that we had three people in it like when Andrew drove it) to see how he felt it compared now to then - I was simply curious. Driving your own car all the time you can sometimes get so used to the quickness that some days you don't think it feels quick! lol

    After a bit of 'spirited driving' on the M25, Dean soon confirmed that is was every bit as quick as he remembered and a few glances at the speedo at different points of going through the gear/in gear tests soon backed that up!

    So, that was my very long way of saying that the cars just fine, just in case anyone wondered if anything was amiss simply looking at the figures in the other thread.

    D

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    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Still a hell of a big dollop of torque there D

    I take it with it not giving full power after 4600rpm thats why the torque tailed off a lot as it's lower than stage 1?

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    Ex Vec-C Admin Stevel's Avatar
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    That's a shame. Would be interesting to see what it was turning out at full chat. Could have sworn the original post mentioned goof Rolling Road results. Freudian slip.

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    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Looking at the Bhp plot around 4000rpm the difference is around 26Bhp so if it carried on that way your well into the 240Bhp bracket

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    [Ex]Admin Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark1319 View Post
    Still a hell of a big dollop of torque there D
    Oh yes indeedy!
    Quote Originally Posted by mark1319 View Post
    I take it with it not giving full power after 4600rpm thats why the torque tailed off a lot as it's lower than stage 1?
    Hadn't thought of that, but yes it probably explains why the torque graph after around 4500 starts to dip down a bit more sharply and ultimately crosses and ends up under the Stage 1 graph at the higher revs. Obviously on the road it would probably remain above (so to speak) the Stage 1 torque curve all the way.

    Even if the Stage 3 torque curve dip under the Stage 1 curve at those higher figures (when you remove the TC issues on the RR) it's not really a concern. Because there's sooo much torque lower down in the rev range, it's almost pointless revving up to the top of the rev range. I'd normally have changed up a gear long before then and be using the torque lower down to keep me accelerating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevel View Post
    Could have sworn the original post mentioned goof Rolling Road results. Freudian slip.
    You spotted my typo before I corrected it!

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    [Ex]Admin Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark1319 View Post
    Looking at the Bhp plot around 4000rpm the difference is around 26Bhp so if it carried on that way your well into the 240Bhp bracket
    Yep, it's difficult to know where the TC starts to initially fight the car, as by the time you feel it you'll have already revved a bit further. Just looking at the graph around the 4000 mark, if that was where it started to fight, then extrapolating that line (very roughly of course) if it didn't start to drop off there and then clip, it certainly is right up in the 235/240 mark at 5,550 rpm.

    EDIT: Yep, just looking at the way the Stage 3 plot sits up above the Stage 1 plot from 2500rpm onwards, if the TC hadn't kicked in and the S3 curve continued above the S1 graph in the same way, it'd peak at around 240bhp based on the S1 curve as you said.

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    Regular Member john_k_sri's Avatar
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    Can you not fit a TC switch? I've got one on mine. I would agree based on the evidence of the graph, you would be looking at a minimum of 240bhp. Just a shame it's not recorded as such.
    Last edited by john_k_sri; 6th July 2008 at 01:00. Reason: addition

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    Regular Member Robbieben's Avatar
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    Is it not possible to disengage the TC by removing the ABS fuse, TC relies on the ABS system to work, I used this method when I had the 3.0 V6 Diesel to disable TC for RR purposes, not certain it will be identical for the 2.0T, but may be worth a try.

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    [Ex]Admin Duncan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_k_sri View Post
    Can you not fit a TC switch? I've got one on mine.
    'fraid not m8
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    Plasma's laptop with his Vaux-Com couldn't turn it off either, and I don't have a TC switch as I don't have the plug behind the blank, so no options to resolve it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robbieben View Post
    Is it not possible to disengage the TC by removing the ABS fuse, TC relies on the ABS system to work, I used this method when I had the 3.0 V6 Diesel to disable TC for RR purposes, not certain it will be identical for the 2.0T, but may be worth a try.
    Again, not on mine I'm afraid - I'd already tried that in the past. Pulling it with the engine off won't then allow the engine to start. Pulling it with the engine running causes it to die.

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    Regular Member Stu14t's Avatar
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    Duncan,

    There may be a work round for the TC switch.

    Have a look at Sig63's posts in This thread.

    From what I've read the wiring may be there

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