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Thread: My Conversation with BSR.

  1. #1
    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Default My Conversation with BSR.

    As you know if been in contact with BSR over the past few days and hyere's what's been said


    Your message: 06-09-08 08:55 pm
    Hi,

    I have just fitted stage 3 to my Vectra 2.0turbo. I did not purchase the exhaust from yourself, instead I got a custom made one. However it's 3" bore from the downpipe to the split for the dual exit with no centre box(just rear silencers) Will this make the stage 3 slower due to less back pressure as I'm a bit disappointed at the results it has achieved and would like some feedback on this please.

    Your message: 06-09-08 08:59 pm
    Just to add my PPC number is *****. The car is a 2004 2.0turbo. Could you please check and confirm the map is the correct one please.

    Thank you
    Mark Robertson.

    BSR: 06-09-08 10:19 pm
    Hello Mark,

    When we at BSR develop tuning kits, we always use stock setup on all cars for stage one tuning kits, and BSR exhaust systems for Stage 2 and beyond.

    Fitting other exhaust systems, injectors, intercoolers etc. than the ones we have in our tuning kits will tamper with the behaviour of the car compared to when the calibration settings was made during our development.

    This will most often result in poor overall performance, boost pressure regulation will be affected causing spikes that in turn often makes the ECU reduce performance due to pinging etc.

    As there are a million different exhaust system manufacturers out there, we have no possibility to test them all and providing "special calibration settings" for each and every one and this is why we strongly suggest that BSR exhaust systems are used on Stage 2 and 3 tuning kits. Otherwise, we can not garuantee performance nor durability of your engine.

    Best regards /BSR

    Your message: 06-10-08 01:50 pm
    Thanks for the reply.

    Is there any way you can analyse the map on my car and alter it to suit the exhaust I have installed? This would be a great help and save me having to change exhausts.

    Mark.

    BSR: 06-10-08 11:09 pm
    Hello Mark,

    I'm sorry to say that there is no way for us to change the calibration settings in the software based on guessing what characteristics your exhaust system may have. Calibration time (i.e. creating a tuned software) is hours and hours of testing in both dyno as well as on the road so the chance of success doing this by "remote guessing" is minimal to say the least I'm afraid as we know nothing about the flow rate of your system, back pressure properties, thermal behaviour etc. etc.

    It's basically like trying to tailor a suit for you without knowing what height you are, how much you weigh, what length your arms and legs are, what colours you prefer. The chance of giving you a perfect suit under these circumstances is quite slim...

    Best regards /BSR

    Your message: 06-11-08 08:01 pm
    OK Thank you for the replies and taking the time to read my questions.

    If possible could you tell me the expected boost levels I should get in each gear at peak torque. This would then tell me if I'm getting the appropriate readings.

    Thank you again.
    Mark.

    BSR: 06-11-08 08:11 pm
    Hello Mark,

    Trionic8 dont work with "boostpressure" as specific value its use Mg/c (airmass) so you ask for a torque value with your gas pedal and the your engine system convert this to a certain airmass in your boost level can bee different deppending on other conditions.But around 1,1-1,4 bar should bee normally but this dont say if you have correct power.To say this you need to know throtelearea in mm2 and airmass in Mg/c problem is that Opel:s techII dont show this value so we have made our one development tool for this.

    Best regards /BSR

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gsi3.2's Avatar
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    Default

    so, where from here Mark?.. you going to ditch ( or sell on ) the MIJ system, or are you going to stick with it?..

    Have you had a centre box, as that would also help with back pressure a wee bit..

  3. #3
    [Ex]Admin Duncan's Avatar
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    Default

    I can't really argue with their replies there Mark. As they've said, with your exhaust from the BSR downpipe backwards not being the BSR one, it's impossible for them to start to give any reasons why it's maybe not performing as well as you think it should be. Again, without them being able to run tests with that exact exhaust, there's no way they're going to be able to tweak the map to suit it - they would physically need to have the exhaust and spend all that time testing it to generate a custom map.

    I know that you were aware it was a bit of a risk not going with the BSR exhaust, as obviously then any guarantee of performance couldn't be given by BSR, and maybe it is the exhaust that's causing the 'issues'? It's difficult to give any encouraging answers as obviously your kit is different to mine due to the exhaust and could be the thing that's holding it back.

    To answer the question you asked in your other thread, your boost pressures are in the right area for the Stage 3 - but as BSR have said, the boost pressure is not an indication of the power/torque being generated, just how hard the turbo is working.

    D

  4. #4
    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Sticking with it for now Mark until I know for definate if it is slower. I'll be getting a centre box at some point as when driving the 400miles back home it'll just drone all the way. Thinking of getting a removable one just for the noise factor when I want it, but obviously if it feels faster It'll stay in.

    The main reason for getting the bigger bore was that I read turbo cars run better with less back pressure, but never really took into account that the BSR map is calibrated for a 2.5". I'm also thinking of getting a live map, but thats way in the future with a bigger turbo a possibility at the same time and swaying away from BSR, not that I have anything against them as we all know they are a great tuner

    Turbo exhausts Although reading it again

    Totally agree as well Duncan, if it's slowing it down it's my fault and I'll hold my hands up and learn not to chase power figures as it is just like betting your life on 100-1
    Last edited by mark1319; 12th June 2008 at 19:43.

  5. #5
    Regular Member joules2.0t's Avatar
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    Trim : SRI


    Year : 53

    Default

    Ok - A long shot and more hassle but.....

    What about fitting a butterfly type valve to the centre section, allowing you manually reduce/increase back pressure (if this is the underlying cause) and then test the driveability of the car.

    Only danger I can see here is that if you restrict exhaust gas flow too much it could shaft the engine, i.e heat build up on exhaust valves leading to failure and new engine.....

    There is a similar system for the VW 1.8T engine, a valve operaed by an actuator, that on full chat basically opens up a valve on the exhaust system giving it the same characteristics as a full 3" exhaust.....
    Last edited by joules2.0t; 12th June 2008 at 23:07.

  6. #6
    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Well I'm going to do some acceleration timings and compare them with Duncans. This will give a definative answer to what it's running like and then go from there

  7. #7
    Regular Member Madgunner's Avatar
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    Oh hell sorry to hear bout your prob's mate i,m in a bit of a pickle as what to do with mine at the mo as i still need a zorst system but not sure what way to go. Talking bout live maps i thought of doing the mod's i wanted to do first then do a live map so i rang courtney & they said..... we have no development for this engine so we can't help you..... then i rang regal & they said yea could be possible to do a live map but it could cost up to £800 & we would need your car for a few day's again no development done for this engine...... reason no demand & the engine is only used in 1 vauxhall . Spose the only way to do it is to get the BSR cat back system now if thats possible & get the PPC later then for sure i know it will work. But the reason i wanted a custom one is that it will be full stainless instead of 60/40 stainless but then even if it was to the BSR spec theres still no guarantee it would work is there?

  8. #8
    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Hold off until I get these acceleration runs done and then that should shed some light on it. I'm not sure if it is slower and will try and gather enough timings this week and hopefully that will be it. Still a possibility I may be at Duncan's in the future so a side by side comparison would be possible.

    I would have thought although they have no experience of the car Courtenay would still be able to do a live map as the method is still the same it's just run on a different system, but they gave me the same response when I asked about tuning mine. Although Maverick(Matt) has said they plan to do some tuning work on the Z20NET in the future.

  9. #9
    Regular Member mark1319's Avatar
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    Just to update Madgunner the exhaust is going. No question it's holding it back. The power delivery is poor, it's running out of puff as the revs rise even though the redline speeds have been increased it's struggling from 5k upwards. Initially it feels as if there is a lot of torque, but nothing more than with stage 1, maybe even less from what I can remember of stage 1. The less back pressure is obviously costing me a lot of torque and top end Hp.


    So I admit it ''I'm a clot and ruined my stage 3''

  10. #10
    Regular Member joules2.0t's Avatar
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    Trim : SRI


    Year : 53

    Default

    Keep thinking positive mate, you will get it sorted in the end.

    What are you going to get to replace the current exhaust? Jetex system?

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