OK A Deep One For You

[VauxVeteran]

Being mid 40's now I feel because of the job I've done for half of my life and what I've experienced both employed and self employed I'd like your opinion on what I'm about to write.

This concerns peace and people, I'll start with how bad things have become over the last fifteen years...

I've noticed that people function at their best when they are happy, now, constantly giving people something to worry about I feel is having a negative effect on them the world over, here's my example, take two men, man number one lives a satisfying life, he hasn't got money worries and generally walks about with a smile on his face, man number two however lives a life of debt and worries about the economy,war and climate, he's also passionate about these things, they decide to go for a drink together, which one do you think will be more likely to get into trouble during the evening?

My answer is man number two, because his mood is bad before he even goes out, then the beer raises this to general resentment.

Issue number two, which is in a way related to issue number one, the chav problem, this imo is caused by lack of aspiration, they leave school with virtually no chance of buying their own house, setting up a business, so in current times the maths go like this.....

Wage = 5-6 pound per hour = 200-240per week, after tax that's 160-185per week

House = Mortgage of 90000 on a one bed flat = 700pm = 161pw plus maintenance charges and council tax.

Or they can rent for 500pm = 115pw

So as you can see both options aren't viable, the residual of their wages won't even feed them.

So what effect does this have on our school leaver, he sees his only option is to live with his parent's, there's no light at the end of the tunnel either because he knows that even when he gets to 20, he'll still only be earning a take home of about 200 pound pw and the costs have risen in that time, so in effect and I've felt this emotion myself long ago, he feel excluded, he watches the BMW's driving up his street and thinks....I'll never have anything so I won't bother to try, then he becomes a statistic of the disfunctional, all his direction and ambition have been destroyed before his life has even started, this doesn't apply in all cases but can you see what I'm getting at?

[JuzzyD]

Yep, with you there.

[Big-Pete]

I see Your point VV, but the building trade is crying out for labour, brickies, plasterers, plumbers, electricians etc.. there is work about, it may not be what the school leavers want to do but its about putting money in your pocket and having some self respect.. if all the polish go back home as is being reported on the news because their economy is getting better then there is little excuse for someone to be out of work here unless they want to be.. The problem with a lot of school leavers is they dislike the idea of getting their hands dirty, when i was younger i'd go to work with my Dad on building sites during school holidays and I loved it because i got used to it.. so finding that sort of work only seemed naturally to me.. i've never been afraid of a bit of hard work.. a lot of Kids nowadays just want to be given everything, a lot of them cannot even keep themselves entertained in the evenings and hang about in gangs and become a nuisance.., so what chance have they got of finding a job by themselves... I know for a fact that an electricians mate (labourer) can earn well over £100 a day for handing tools to an electrician.. I get emails from job agencies advertising for electrical mates and they are paying over £10 an hour for an unskilled job..

[ditchp]

i think that if the guidance from the parent's is good then all kid's will have a chance of getting on well in life....learnt behavior is afterall the biggest thing in your life............

most people as pete say's dont want to get there hand's dirty or get a propper job, instead they all want the good thing's in life for free, or as easily as is possible........and this is where the problem's start imho........

[glenboy]

II get emails from job agencies advertising for electrical mates and they are paying over £10 an hour for an unskilled job..

I get that and i'm a skilled tradesman,i know i might live in a low income area but,£10 an hour for unskilled worker passing tools to an electrician,i could do that and have no stress or worries/responsibilities i have now,this could be a long thread as everyone has a veiw on wages/job situations/dossers/no hopers and general scumbags...........

[Stevel]

Not often I post on this type of thing but it ties in 100% IMO.

Last year we had to apply to a Catholic Faith school for the little fella. Interviews with the Priest and a written summary of why we wanted him to be raised as a Catholic. He got in. He's now Form Captain, learning to play the saxaphone, in the chess club and sings for the school choir. He's had glowing reports from the teachers as well as a serious kick up the backside from the head of year for forgetting to take in his homework.

The alternative school has been under special measures for as long as I can remember. The results are terrible and have been for years.

Both me and the missus went to that school and we achieved everthing we have despite it. Not because of it.

No here's the thing. Why is it so bad? It doesn't need to be. There are kids from the boys class that went there last year who were as capable or even more so than him.

I think the clue lies with the Council website. Earlier this year they put on the home page a rolling banner which proudly proclamed that 75% of the jobs in the area are in the Service Industry. I.E. Shops. WTF is that to be proud about? The small engineering firms are dying out. Take away Vauxhalls and a few packaging plants and all that left is Cheshire Oaks Shopping Outlet.

So I honestly believe now that the other school is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Provide a workforce for the service industry. It lowers expectations, suppresses talent and provides a continuous supply of unskilled labour to the growing local service industry.

All in all it's doing it's job very well but it makes be ******* angry.

Rant Over.

[VauxVeteran]

@ Pete.

Although I like the Poles, I hope they do go home but only for the reasons to get some jobs back in British hands and to minimise the damaging look some ppl have towards them, history shows them as very good friends, anyway I wasn't aware that good pay jobs like that were available, but I take your point about not wanting to get dirty and being generally lazy, the lazy side of it is the major problem, if you can get that out of a man he'll be just as productive as the Poles are, I know a lot of firms prefer them now, but that's not new anyway, yrs ago they all wanted Irishmen because they put in an honest day, I used to knock stuff down yrs ago, I didn't do it long because it paid real poor back then, but I know if I was 18 and there was a monkey a week to be earned I'd be on it.

[Ste]

The main reason is that people have become lazy and think they can get everything they want / need for free.

I am sure there are people who think they can free load and get by. Maybe they can in the short term, but what about their whole life??

Someone used the BMW driving past analogy before. This is what I think about it. Either you can think 'look at that flash b'stard, I'll never be able to afford that' and then go and slash his tyres OR you can think 'That could be me, if I want to work for it'

Which one do the low achievers think? At then end of the day it is down to the individual to make choices. Just because a school is bad doesn't mean that everyone who goes there will not achieve, and conversely, not everyone who goes to a good school will achieve either.

When I left school I worked for a company and earned about £130 a week. I then decided that there was no future in what I was doing and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I had left school with 4 'A' levels and that got me into university where I got myself a good education and then USED that to my advantage.

Having supportive parents definitely helps. If kids have non achieving parents, then it will be even harder for them to see that work = money = the good things in life.

People bang on about lack of opportunity, IMO that is a load of tosh. If you want it you WILL find it and a way to access it. If you don't want to work for it, you will not bother and BLAME someone / something else.

At the moment work is everywhere. There are plenty of jobs for people to do, it's just a case of people wanting to do it and if necessary equipping themselves with the right skills to get the jobs.

It all means knuckling down and doing some work. If you're lazy you won't be bothered and you will hang out with your gang or watch TV and be fed a diet of mush.


Having said all that, there are people who do not have many opportunities due to the situation they are in. For example (not exhaustive, just an example to show the point) if you take a single parent, how are they going to find a decent job when childcare would cost a fortune, have no after school care and what about school holidays? Not many employers will be tolerant of that much time off and then what about child illness too? Not all single parents are single through choice or through being stupid or any of the stereotypical 'chav' reasons either.....

[VauxVeteran]

I think ppl imagine that well paid jobs are a plenty, sure there's plenty of 5-7 an hour jobs, but they don't provide a wage to get into the own home and nice car world.

I had this myself, where I live has the costs of London and the wages of Rochdale, it's the most abused place on the South for employers thinking they can feed the pigeons rather than pay a realistic wage, I left school in 1980, my 1st "apprenticeship" paid 60p ph before tax, I used to find 20.50p in my wage packet, and if I read it right I was probably never on any payroll and I never got papers or college, anyway that lasted 11 mths before they realised that I'd downgraded my output to match their wages, signed on and received 25.00p, go figure, then I entered the world of applying for jobs, along I'd go and the 1st thing they'd ask is ...so you have any experience? how am I gonna have experience at 16 yrs old, why waste my time if this was gonna be the answer? then as I got older it switched, greedy barstewards realised low age low wage, so now I was the guy with no experience and now at 30 too old as well, this country wants the earth from it's workforce and wants it cheap, and that's what I think a lot of the kids have realised, sure you have your Man Utd and Chelsea type ppl who have been successful in life, but most of the ones I know did it selling drugs and then using the profits to set up a legit business, interest free start up costs in other words.

What stops any business going to a school and asking to do a presentation of what they do and to sign up potential staff when these kids leave 6 mths later, I'd employ fit healthy 16 yr olds straight from school, take time to invest in them and get them into the man ethic and watch them become assets, some of the most successful ppl I know did it with staff happiness, they'd go for a few beers after work with their lads, and treat them more as friends than employees, gaining back a full day and ppl who want to work for them, to take take take and chuck a few bits of corn in return just breeds hate, I've seen it many a time, there are some ppl about who just shouldn't be in charge of anything, an old mate of mine closed 5 successful businesses down, why? cos he's a lazy greedy sod, he should be very wealthy now, but instead he still lives in his ex council house and drives an old bucket, if he'd had any ppl skill he would've had a lot more.

[Big-Pete]

@ Pete.

Although I like the Poles, I hope they do go home but only for the reasons to get some jobs back in British hands

Totally agree with you VV, Although I've had nothing but complaints about the pole sparkies, From what i've seen & been told from our test engineers who go out on site to inspect their work, they undercut and do a shabby job, because they are quoting and doing the work yet a lot of them don't know our Electricity regs at all..

Maybe retrain yourself a sparky VV, There is a shortage of sparkies, it will be getting worse, a mate of mine who live near nottingham said there is a shortage there and he can more or less charge what he likes.. the wages will just keep going up, there is a ton of work in east london because of the olympic building works going on there, They will be earning a really good wage, Just like the Sparks i know who were working at Heathrow terminal 5, some of those were pulling in on average £1500 to £2000 a week, but they had to do 12hrs a day 7 days a week for it..
I was always tought that if you want something then work for it.. and its not done me anyharm...