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Thread: 1.9 CDTI v 2.0 DTI

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    Regular Member SteveH's Avatar
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    Default 1.9 CDTI v 2.0 DTI

    having run a vec B 2.0 DTI for 6 years and now have the same lump in my 52 plate elite C
    i seem to see lots of probs with the 1.9 CDTI popping up and issues with 2.0 & 2.2 Dti's

    what are the diffrences... i know the CDTI puts out more bhp

    what are the pitfalls and advantages between the two ???

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    2.0DTi and 2.2DTi are old Opel designed units roughly based on an Isuzu design, 16v head using a single camshaft. Chain driven cam and pump on the 2.0DTi, chain on the 2.2DTi also runs the twin balancer shafts. They both use the Bosch VP44 which is a pretty high tech piece of equipment for a mechanical injection pump - the VP44 can actually do some stuff that some commonrail systems are only starting to do, like preinjection during warmup to reduce knock, etc. Only problem with the VP44 is the amount of power it saps to actually work - hence the 100-ish horsepower output of the engine. It's considered the VP44 sucks about 50hp out of the engine.

    The CDTi engines are an Alfa Romeo/Fiat design, based off the old TD units from Fiat (see a 15 year old Punto near you for that engine's family history). Injection system is run off an electric pump, so you automatically gain that 50hp that the old injection pump is sucking. Otherwise the engines are pretty similar.

    Commonrail engines only get their horsepower gain from not having to run the pump.

    Pitfalls of the engines:

    2.0DTi - crap turbo, fragile injection pump if run on poor diesel
    2.2DTi - REALLY crap turbo due to being an early variable vane thing, see above for pump, balancer shafts mean it won't rev as freely as the 2.0DTi
    1.9CDTi - It's Italian, crappy swirl valves, It's Italian, dual-mass flywheel problems, DPF crappage, and it's Italian.

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    Regular Member 98vectra's Avatar
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    You seem to know a lot about the diesels are you a mecanic or do you just belive everything you hear ? lol

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    Regular Member corman's Avatar
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    so i think i got this right..................

    if i remove my VP44 and replace it with the electric motor out of my old lawn mower i get an extra 50bhp ...

    how cheap a power gain

    now wheres my adjustable spanner......


























    just teasing mate, seriously, thanks for that bit of info, often wondered why i had so little power and now i know

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    Regular Member AndrewTi's Avatar
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    ^ lol!!!

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    I'm not a mechanic by trade, but engines fascinate me, and I do a lot of research into the subject. It's surprising how much power it takes to squirt diesel at 1600BAR through a hole the size of a human hair.

    I guess you could power the pump by electric, though getting it timed correctly, and spinning at exactly the right speed compared to the engine could be interesting.

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    Regular Member Geoshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _ZS_ View Post
    The CDTi engines are an Alfa Romeo/Fiat design, based off the old TD units from Fiat (see a 15 year old Punto near you for that engine's family history). Injection system is run off an electric pump, so you automatically gain that 50hp that the old injection pump is sucking. Otherwise the engines are pretty similar.

    Commonrail engines only get their horsepower gain from not having to run the pump.
    Any commonrail high pressure diesel pumps i've ever seen or worked on are not electric and still run from the engine turning a shaft on/in the pump. They have an electric lift pump.

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    Regular Member nutron's Avatar
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    The common rail engines don't gain 50bhp from having and electric pump... They common rail systems allow for higher injection pressures and much more accurate timing, due to the electrically actuated injectors. Common rail systems can inject before and after the main burst, infact they could inject as many times as they like because the pressure is always there (unlike a mechanically dirrected pump). As a result of much more accurate timings and higher pressures the engine can perform far more efficiently. The effects are most obvious at higher revs, the 1.9CDTI being able to quite happily rev to 6000+rpm if you remap it to. The old 2.0 and 2.2 DTI engines are fine for what they are but will never be able to match the common rail engines for power or ecconomy (not just speculation, I've had vauxhalls with 1.7TD, 2.0DTI and two 1.9CDTIs).

    As for problems, they both have problems but it's as always, some times you get a keeper and sometimes you get a block of cheese. The DTIs are suseptable to pump failure at £2500+ a time, bleed back pipes, EGR valve clogging, e.c.t. The 1.9CDTI is STILL believe it or not teething effectivly, as they keep changing the engine. There have been at least three different engine layouts since I bough one in 2005. I have had two 1.9CDTIs now and abused them both, with love of course. They haven't had any serious issues except a bit of clutch slip due to too much torque being forced through and after a while it stopped sliping all on its own.

    I would recomend the 1.9CDTIs having driven both engines in question but I enjoyed both equally when I had them.

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