Vectra C - a common fault?

[northpole]

Well there is still the REC and the dash fusebox that can do with a clean... PS there is a part of the rec that is in the back it holds relays... you might want to clean those too... half-canbus cars don't like power fluctuations or to much resistance in fuses... the fuses give intermittent problems but won't blow.
Also afaik there has been a recall on the 2.0DTI dealing with a software upgrade, and although i know my car has had said upgrade i don't know if yours had it... you can find it out if you take your VIN to the OPEL dealer and ask them if the car has had all the recalls carried out (they might charge you though)

[Chupo_cro]

Well there is still the REC and the dash fusebox that can do with a clean... PS there is a part of the rec that is in the back it holds relays... you might want to clean those too... half-canbus cars don't like power fluctuations or to much resistance in fuses... the fuses give intermittent problems but won't blow.
Also afaik there has been a recall on the 2.0DTI dealing with a software upgrade, and although i know my car has had said upgrade i don't know if yours had it... you can find it out if you take your VIN to the OPEL dealer and ask them if the car has had all the recalls carried out (they might charge you though)

I will continue searching for the fault after New Year when I return back here where I have the tools. Today I cleaned connectors going from the interior fuse box. After cleaning the connectors with contact spray there was immobilizer error. Then I disconnected and reconnected the connectors one more time and after that when I turned the key the dashboard was off as if there was no battery. Seems as contact spray I used (Nigrin) is conductive and it didn't evaporate even after half an hour (maybe because it was very cold). After drying the contacts with hot air the car started working again. Unfortunately I didn't notice the bolts holding both connector ends and I broke the plastic around the holder. I did watch the TIS removing diagram but the pictures are not very clear. Some data in TIS is not correct - for example lower panneling for instrument pannel padding has 6 bolts and not 5 as stated in TIS. And the last bolt is "hidden" and could be found only after removing the light switch centre. I am sure someone broke that cover after removing only 5 bolts as shown in TIS (C462730) document.

After New Year I'll look at all three CAN BUS signals with the oscilloscope, try to remove the display where is according to TIS the interface between the mid-speed and the low speed CAN BUS, remove the rear fuse box, maybe once more remove the CIM, check power steering and everything you suggested in your replies. As I've seen CAN BUS troubleshooting is very well explained in TIS but can take some time.

I still didn't reprogram anything because CAN BUS crashes every 45 seconds and that might brick some working module.

I'll order MCP2515 and MCP2551 to analyse CAN traffic (I'll probably use ATmega of STM microcontroller), maybe I'll find some useful information.

Thank you very much for your help!

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year!

[Chupo_cro]

i do think you would be better off using TIS as it'll help you identify parts/ part locations and how to go about taking the lot apart, there are numerous sources on the internet that you allow you to download a version and install it on a laptop... it's the digital dealers workshop manual and it has everything in there including schematics, get a Tech2 on that computer and you'll be able to do everything the dealer can do on your car, including recoding every single module if needs be.

Hi again,

I am back to the car after a while and I am removing module by module and checking the PCBs. As unbelievable as it sounds I can't find anything about the main Vectra 2.0 2002 (motor Y 20 DTH) ECU in TIS :-/ There are a few mentions of ECM in the CAN documents but I don't find even the location of the main ECU in the TIS documents. Is it possible that data is missing? I think the main ECU is in front of the engine but I couldn't find any removal instructions nor YouTube videos showing how to remove the main control unit.

I did find many videos showing the main ECUs on some other Vectra models but these have the main ECU in the other location.

Do you by any chance know where I could find the main ECU removal instructions?

[northpole]

the ecu is on the VP44 pump... there are 2 cables on it one in the bottom and one on the top... if you want to check the ecu you'll need to search Google on the opel/vauxhall VP44 PSG16 fuelpump as used on the 2.0 and 2.2 dti engines... you'll soon find the info you are looking for... best info i found was on a remap site for the ecu regarding MPPS v21 for remapping.

it can be done but the thing needs a direct connection to certain points on the ecu....

but back to your problems.. if the ecu isn't working you'll find that the car won't start at all, simply remove the cables check if the pins are straight, if they are than there should be communications, if it doesn't than remove the ABS cable clean it and put it back... as all the main wires to the ecu go through there also and is the main bottle neck if you lack communications on the ECU. but in my experience, on both dti engines with no communications to the ECU, either one of the cables doesn't connect to a pin ( bend pins, bend them back problem solved) or the ABS cable needs a clean up ( clean it and communication problems are gone)

[Chupo_cro]

the ecu is on the VP44 pump... there are 2 cables on it one in the bottom and one on the top... if you want to check the ecu you'll need to search Google on the opel/vauxhall VP44 PSG16 fuelpump as used on the 2.0 and 2.2 dti engines... you'll soon find the info you are looking for... best info i found was on a remap site for the ecu regarding MPPS v21 for remapping.

it can be done but the thing needs a direct connection to certain points on the ecu....

but back to your problems.. if the ecu isn't working you'll find that the car won't start at all, simply remove the cables check if the pins are straight, if they are than there should be communications, if it doesn't than remove the ABS cable clean it and put it back... as all the main wires to the ecu go through there also and is the main bottle neck if you lack communications on the ECU. but in my experience, on both dti engines with no communications to the ECU, either one of the cables doesn't connect to a pin ( bend pins, bend them back problem solved) or the ABS cable needs a clean up ( clean it and communication problems are gone)

So that is the one, J Engine and Engine Aggregates > Fuel Injection Systems > Control Unit in TIS. Thank you very much for that information! And all other, of course :-)

Seems as all car manufacturers like when the data considering main ECUs is released in "slightly" cryptic format.

Since the car starts and I am driving it all the time (I just have to turn the engine off and back on while driving when I have to use the turn signals in the next 3 minutes :-) ) I will not try to open the main ECU. But still I'd like to check its two connectors. Is it even possible to reach those without taking apart half the engine?

In the meantime I checked the CAN_H and CAN_L signals with the oscilloscope and the signals are good even after the CIM communication stops. I still didn't check middle and low speed CAN signals but since I can use the aircondition controls (using the display), radio and open and close windows even when turns signals, RPM and speed indicators etc. stop working - I think middle and low speed CAN communication is good too.

I've found an excellent 3 part video series about recording and filtering CAN messages on Opel Vectra 2.0 (link to source code is in the description of video #02), as soon as ICs I ordered arrive and I'll build the device and record the CAN communication to see what happens every exactly 45 seconds when the RMP and speed needles drop to zero - that might be an useful information. I've already checked the Python program for reading and decoding the CAN messages and it is done very well. There is the shematics in the description for making a device with two switches for selecting which CAN network (high speed, middle speed, low speed) to read and there is source code for the microcontroller firmware to be used with the device.

Today I removec the CIM one more time and even after repeated close inspection I couldn't notice cold solder joints on the connector header. I might still resolder those joints but that would ruin the PCB coating, that's why I will try to clean all pins one more time.

I hope the problem is not because EEPROM inside microcontroller(s) reached maximum write cycles (this CIM doesn't have a separate EEPROM chip). It would be easier if I had one more CIM PCB to check if the problem is CIM but still didn't find one. As I understand both GM and Delphi numbers on the module must be the same.

[northpole]

Yes you can they are next to the head on the engine, mounted in that black cradle... Not that hard to get to at all.
Ps open the clocks and clean the main circuit board.... You might be surprised that it might just work normally again. As I stated before my car was a workhorse owned by a heavy smoker... I found that nicotine had found it's way in everything... Even sealed of modulus, and after taking most of them apart and just cleaning the nicotine of various module ls mainboards... They are working problem free again.

So if your car was owned by a heavy smoker, just do what I did and clean all the circuitboards with an electrical cleaner.

[Chupo_cro]

Yes you can they are next to the head on the engine, mounted in that black cradle... Not that hard to get to at all.
Ps open the clocks and clean the main circuit board.... You might be surprised that it might just work normally again. As I stated before my car was a workhorse owned by a heavy smoker... I found that nicotine had found it's way in everything... Even sealed of modulus, and after taking most of them apart and just cleaning the nicotine of various module ls mainboards... They are working problem free again.

So if your car was owned by a heavy smoker, just do what I did and clean all the circuitboards with an electrical cleaner.

Yes, I was thinking of removing the clocks and I will try to remove them now that steering wheel and CIM have already been removed, thank you for the suggestion.

The car was brand new when we have bought it and it is clean from nicotine but I will certainly check for dust. Although I do smoke but not while driving (I also cycle a lot, many times more than 200 km on MTB in one day including hills).

[northpole]

If you ever had to clean the power window controls well than the clocks probably will need a cleanup too.

FYI I even took apart the UEC and cleaned that too as I had an intermittent foglight problem... but that turned out to be a rusty foglight housing. Once replaced with a better non rusty used set the problem never came back. So I cleaned that for no reason other than making sure it wasn't suffering from to much resistance due to grime build ups, as the problem actually was the offending foglight.

[Chupo_cro]

If you ever had to clean the power window controls well than the clocks probably will need a cleanup too.

FYI I even took apart the UEC and cleaned that too as I had an intermittent foglight problem... but that turned out to be a rusty foglight housing. Once replaced with a better non rusty used set the problem never came back. So I cleaned that for no reason other than making sure it wasn't suffering from to much resistance due to grime build ups, as the problem actually was the offending foglight.

I removed the clocks and the contacts were as clean as if the car just arrived from the factory. I already removed and cleaned the UEC two months ago (it was clean too) but nothing changed.

Today I tested the car again after disassembling the CIM one more time but still the same - CIM restarts every 45 seconds and after the 4th restart all the functions performed by CIM stop working until turning the ignition off.

In the beginning everything started to work well after 10-15 minutes of driving. Later it was after 30 minutes, a few weeks later it was about 45 minutes and the last time everything started to work well was after 60 minutes of driving. Today the error remained even after the engine was on for 90 minutes. Looks like the problem is some component on the CIM PCB. I didn't notice any strange looking SMD capacitor. Maybe I could try to replace High Speec CAN Transceiver chip TJA1050.

I'd like to do the test with the PCB from another CIM but I am not sure if all the numbers must match. The numbers on my CIM are:

GM:
13112786 XU

Delphi:
4536 9002
0204090163

I've found used CIM with the numbers:

GM:
13112784 XR (I can't read Delphi number in the picture)

I think I'll start another thread about replacing or repairing the CIM module. Maybe someone knows what exactly CIM does every exactly 45 seconds. The processor on the CIM module obviously starts some task every 45 seconds and if that fails 4 times then it stops the communication or goes into some kind of safe mode.

Someone migh know if CIM could be tested on the bench when it is the only device on the CAN BUS. That way it could be 100% confirmed if the problem is CIM.

[northpole]

AFAIK you need to get the exact same CIM and than it needs coding to the car you'd probably only need to code 2 modules...if you get one that is a later model(higher number) you will need to recode more modules, and you might run into an incompatible one as it needs to be one that can work with both, half-canbus and full canbus (I'm still trying to findout what cim numbers are compatible with both so I can install the xp2 steeringwheel on mine without the scroll wheels sounding the horn, stll haven't found an answer to that)