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Thread: z30dt with leaking water pump

  1. #11
    Midlands - Vxr Owning Dick Dog_Book's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northpole View Post
    so basically you've described the standard symptoms of a failed waterpump seal, we told you to replace it and you are 2nd guessing the advise, as you want to see it.. why ask for advise in the first place?

    The timing cover is not sealed at all it is bolted on without a seal anywhere... it is just to prevent splashed up water from driving in bad weather conditions and foreign objects that could find their way into the engine bay from damaging the timingbelt or any of the components... if the seal on the waterpump goes it will leak, there will be no oil in it, unless there is an oil leak somewhere on the trail of the coolant seeping past the waterpumps seal... this will run down the side of the engine and form a puddle under the car.. under the cover there are no oil leaks, the sump is sealed off so it won't have any coolant in the sump creating the so called mayonnaise effect in the engine.


    just get on and replace the parts we mentioned and you'll be fine.
    You'll most likely find the timing cover is sealed as there's a few gears in there which will need oil to lubricate them.
    Also, if the water pump seal did leak. It would go into that area for the timing gears and find its way into the oil system. Usually there is some port for water to leak out and away if the bearing seals go though which you'll already know.
    But looking at the part its still contained so can only assume it goes inside the timing chamber unless theres a way for it to vent outside where the belts are?

    https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co...6-cdti.393222/
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  2. #12
    Regular Member northpole's Avatar
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    How stupid are you lot?
    I checked it and those those cogs are not lubricated by engine oil (most likely they are lubricated with some sort of grease once and that stays like that) otherwise the whole design would be ready for a mayo like problem, and they would have had loads of problems with these engines....

    again where the waterpump is located on an engine, will always be an oil free environment as waterpumps can leak because they are ware items....

  3. #13
    Midlands - Vxr Owning Dick Dog_Book's Avatar
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    So in all your mechanical engineering experience you quite happily state that they are greased once then left for what is it now? 14-17 years and 200k of miles, isnt going need it re-greasing?, odd really because all gear trains on conveyor systems and transmissions ive ever seen have periodic maintenance to replace it as it gets squeezed out at the sides of the contact faces. Ive never seen one metal and nylon or an mix allowed to run dry.
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    Full Member Jon1796's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1796 View Post
    So i was right then, the gears do run in an oil bath. Can't work out where the water would go if you had a leak coming out of the water pump though as it would just go into the oil. Certainly not under the engine.

    Thankfully im not so stupid after all
    Last edited by Dog_Book; 12th September 2021 at 19:07.
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    Regular Member northpole's Avatar
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    thankfully i see no traces of motoroil those cogs aren't lubed... if it would it would cause mayo and therefore it would be a seriously bad design, even when he pops off the old waterpump there is NO OIL to be seen... also as an engineer you should know about gravite as a lube... use once stays on for a considerable amount of years especially in a closed environment like that.... I rest my case... PS the holes aren't oil holes i watched it carefully and again the stuff coming out isn't oil it is coolant...

    if they would've designed it the way you both thought it was put together it would literally be a mayo creating situation, and it wouldn't pass any consumer test, just think about the law suits GM would be exposed to in the USA.

    engineering degree or not use your common sense... o' wait there ain't non...

  7. #17
    Regular Member northpole's Avatar
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    Scrap my post above!

    I watched it again and i need to swallow my remarks... oops... there is a motoroil passage way right in the top corner of the waterpump and another one somewhere in the other corner.... uhmmm how this design passed a consumer test is beyond me...anyway he'll have to drop the motoroil anyway so whatever water found it's way into the sump will come out with that... can't reuse it so you'll also need to put in new oil... timing belt, belt tensioner, waterpump, coolant and oil = one expensive waterpump change

    there might be a fluid drain setup somewhere, that reroutes water incase of a waterpump failure which than ends up under the engine. to prevent water and oil mixing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by northpole View Post
    Scrap my post above!

    I watched it again and i need to swallow my remarks... oops... there is a motoroil passage way right in the top corner of the waterpump and another one somewhere in the other corner.... uhmmm how this design passed a consumer test is beyond me...anyway he'll have to drop the motoroil anyway so whatever water found it's way into the sump will come out with that... can't reuse it so you'll also need to put in new oil... timing belt, belt tensioner, waterpump, coolant and oil = one expensive waterpump change

    there might be a fluid drain setup somewhere, that reroutes water incase of a waterpump failure which than ends up under the engine. to prevent water and oil mixing...
    Phew! Thank the gods, i was going to have to screen shot the video where you can see oil on ledges on the castings. The gears were all shiny to and those markings looked like they were smearing quickly so not sure how it was timed back up.

    I didn't do a degree, i did a technical apprenticeship where you do the manual machine work then go to college for the technical bit. The others did city and guilds on day release we didn't, so we learnt about a lot more like material properties and grain structures and forces. But that was engineering and production, because Ive never sat back i got involved in jet engine 3D solid modelling of parts and the lubrication system which Ive forgotten.
    Ive not heard of gravite you might have meant graphite, heard of it and molybdenum but i have no direct experience using them so am not qualified to comment. Either way, neither are a one use product and like any oil wears out or looses its proprieties so has to be replaced at sometime.
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  9. #19
    Regular Member northpole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog_Book View Post
    Phew! Thank the gods, i was going to have to screen shot the video where you can see oil on ledges on the castings. The gears were all shiny to and those markings looked like they were smearing quickly so not sure how it was timed back up.

    I didn't do a degree, i did a technical apprenticeship where you do the manual machine work then go to college for the technical bit. The others did city and guilds on day release we didn't, so we learnt about a lot more like material properties and grain structures and forces. But that was engineering and production, because Ive never sat back i got involved in jet engine 3D solid modelling of parts and the lubrication system which Ive forgotten.
    Ive not heard of gravite you might have meant graphite, heard of it and molybdenum but i have no direct experience using them so am not qualified to comment. Either way, neither are a one use product and like any oil wears out or looses its proprieties so has to be replaced at sometime.
    Yeah with gravity I meant graphite. And the one I am on about is on par with the grease used on the cv joints as long as that is in a closed system it doesn't need to be replaced. But in this case I was wrong so I admit I jumped the gun here...

    Anyway back on track: he will have to replace the pump, the timing belt, timingbelt tensioner, oil and coolant... that is one hell of an expensive waterpump replacement and I still don't see a reason why they didn't make it simpler. As this design is a ticking time bomb...

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    Many thanks to Jon1796 for posting the video, it eventually convinced us all that any leak from the water pump would indeed end up in the sump. So as the water is appearing under the car and the sump wasn't filling up with water, decided to have an exploratory look this morning with my local mechanic. By pressuring the water bottle we finally detected the leak coming from the front of the block near the oil cooler. The water has been running back on a pipe making it look like it was further back. There appears to be a coolant pipe from the oil cooler that has a housing bolted to the block, the leak seems to be coming from this housing. But access is near impossible, even using inspection mirrors it was difficult to see.
    So looks like the front end of the car will have to come off, ie bumper, rad, aircon rad just to get to it. Likely to be a cheap seal that will cause hours of work to change! AHHHH. Has anyone got any further info? Has anyone actually changed this seal before?
    Any advise gratefully received.

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