314mm / 292mm brake upgrade questions

[Kolthor]

Hi guys

I recently got new 19" alloys on my '08 1.9 CDTi (150), and started looking into what could be done to avoid damage from brake dust. One thing lead to another, and I've decided that I want to do a brake upgrade/conversion to 314mm fronts / 292mm rears, as a number of you guys have done already.
I've researched as well as I can, but I'm a noob, so feedback is appreciated.

I know I need calipers, carriers & clips. Will probably get some used off ebay or something, and get them sandblasted and powder coated.

Do I need anything else?

Some threads here talk about some copper washers, and braided brake lines, is that needed/recommended?

I'm guessing a piston seal kit would be a good idea, just to be on the safe side when getting used, but are there other wear & tear bits that would be worth replacing on the calipers?

I'll get a mechanic friend to help me do the upgrade, I just want to make sure I get all the (right) parts I need.

Pads & rotors
To mitigate the brake dust problem, I've learned that ceramic pads are the way to go. You still get dust, but it's supposedly less likely to stick to the alloys, and lighter in colour.
They supposedly also perform better in pretty much every way, though they are 2-3x the price, but it seems worth it.

My idea is to go with the following:

• EBC Redstuff pads (DP31416C front / DP31749C rear)
• EBC GD Sport rotors (GD1187 front / GD1251 rear)

The part numbers in the parentheses should fit the 314mm/292mm from the '03-'05 3.2 V6.

I have no experience with EBC or any other named brake brands, but they seem like they're decent.
Thoughts and recommendations are welcome.

[lizard]

Red stuff front and back and wheels will stay clean for ages...

[Jebus]

Hi mate,

My views are thus,

First yes you need the calipers, carriers front and rear as well as new shields for the rear, the front ones can be trimmed slightly and they fit fine, and to fit new the hub has to come off and you often damage the ABS sensor, so have to replace the lot, so overall is best avoided.

If you are getting the blasted and powder coated (make sure its a company that knows what they are doing with calipers), then you will need to fit new seals and sliders rubbers and if the pistons have damage on them, you need to replace them as well really , www.brakeparts.co.uk is an excellent source for all of that, fitting them is very easy. In the HOW 2 section there are guides that show it all.

Braided lines are a good thing todo at the same time, give a nicer pedal feel and look good as well and the wemoto kit comes with stainless fittings and copper washers for the banjos(these stop leaks, like a sump washer) since you have all the bits off pretty much, as well as an excellent time todo a full fluid flush. and remember to use red rubber/silicon grease on the slider pins and a small dab of copper grease on the contact areas of pad to carrier (very slight dab only)

Unless you are wanting fancy looking discs, stick with GM stuff it is good quality and about £50 for disc and pads per axle via trade club, you own a diesel Vectra you really don't need to be going for ultimate stopping power, the 313/292 setup is very good use tradeclub and put the saved cash towards better tires, they will have a far great effect on stopping ability.

For the dust, personally I think that a good clean and then protect the wheels so the dust does not stick or harm it in the first place, seal them with something like gtechniq C5, and you will have several years protection and dust will come off with just normal soap and water when you wash the car and rinse down. go over to Detailing section or detailing world forums for vast amounts of info

hope that helps a little bit, i have the upgrade todo on mine but dont think that I will have the time or bother anymore stripped the calipers down and thats about it so far might stick them on ebay or on here soon though, might be getting rid of the Vectra

[Kolthor]

I was under the impression that the stock 278mm rear dust shields could be bent back a little to make room for the 292mm? I hope that's true -- it sounds like a lot of work to replace them.

I don't know who I'll get to do the sand blasting and powder coating, but I'll be sure to enquire if they know what they're doing :P I'm guessing it has something to do with covering up the bits that need covering up?

Seals and slide rubbers, got it. brakeparts.co.uk carries non-GM calipers, but they list them as compatible with certain GM part numbers. Would the service kits be compatible with GM calipers?
(This one for instance, is listed as equivalent to GM 93176375. Would the service kit for it fit the GM part too?)

I'll look into some braided lines too then. Some people here talked about the Wezmoto ones being too long though (http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?213883), my Veccy is lowered 50mm all around, does it make a difference?

Is trade club a UK thing? I'm from DK, not sure I could get original GM's for £200, but they would certainly be less than EBC. I already have good tyres, and I don't mind spending a bit extra on the brakes, if I can get something better than GM's.
I just don't want pads with iron or steel fibres again.. In my experience, the dust gets so hot it melts into the paint of the alloys, and then it starts rusting.. Hence I'm looking for ceramic, kevlar or similar non-steel based pads.
The EBC parts I listed adds up to £466 with shipping -- not that bad, if they are any good, but reviews on EBC seems extremely bipolar; either they're the best thing ever, or they are utter ****e..
Greenstuff might be better for a daily driver, but they aren't ceramic so they are a lot softer, wears down faster (producing more dust), and runs hotter. And they cost the same as the Redstuffs, so it seems like a bad deal..
Maybe EBC isn't the way to go then, what else is in that price range? The Ferodo DS2500 are ~50% more than the Redstuff/Greenstuff, and they are marketed as track pads, so maybe the DS Performance would be a better choice? They are about the same price as the EBC, and are marketed for street use. Can't find info on the material or dust characteristics though.

Any other brands worth looking into?

[bonehead]

IIRC from my V6 Cavalier days, the Redstuff pads are considered too hard for day to day braking.
probably why they don't dust up so much!
Greenstuff seem the better bet for a road car, if a little dustier.

[Corfate]

I have stock GM pads and they're not that dusty tbh

[Dog_Book]

I have stock GM pads and they're not that dusty tbh

Mine do, after cleaning they get dusty within 3 days but then I have more power and give it some stick quite a bit

[astradriver]

Mine do, after cleaning they get dusty within 3 days but then I have more power and give it some stick quite a bit

Mine too, but I ordered the lot (disc and pads) from neo bros and pads that came were pagid which are known to be a bit dustier. Probably depends which batch you get your order from as there are several manufacturers that produce "gm genuine" stuff.

[Jebus]

Agree, on the Red Stuff pads, never used them but they do like the heat in them so unless you are hard on your brakes then they will not be that good and often read unhappy reviews on them on other forums, and for a daily driver the GM or if they still to the police spec pads are ample, they do dust when used hard but with sealed wheels and reasonable regular cleaning will mean no issues with dirty wheels, they are some great threads for how effective sealed wheels are on DW.

Good clean properly lubed calipers and good tires will do wonders for safe consistent braking, but if you want to go for the uprated pad route, Ferodo DS2500 seem to be near universally praised, work ok from stone cold and are akin to chucking a anchor out the back window from what I usually hear.

[vmb2722]

Problem with pagid is its different manufacturers, same box, and this was straight out of the mouth of the eurocarparts Area Rep