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Thread: Vettel's alleged illegal overtake

  1. #1
    Regular Member chewy71's Avatar
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    Default Vettel's alleged illegal overtake

    So with the video footage showing Vettel clearly making a pass under yellow flag conditions, what do you think the officials will do?.... charge the 20 second penalty dropping him to finish 8th (or 9th) and so lose the title to Alonso,.. or leave the standings as they were?....

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    Regular Member farley2708's Avatar
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    the 'incident(s) have been reported,so going by the FIA's own rules they have to investigate as no penalty was given either during the remending 67/68 laps or after the race............ie 20sec penalty,this is why the torro rosso of J Eric Verne was told to stay 20 secs behind schumacher so 'if' there was a time penalty incurred Vettel would still be WDC but the gap left was only 19.2secs,is it any wonder why Horners & Neweys face didnt look like some team that had just won their driver the 3rd WDC

    FROM Scuderia.net

    However, the governing body does not need a protest from Ferrari to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.

    Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

    It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."

    That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another

    Originally Posted by BBCFerrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest


    Ferrari want to establish whether there is enough evidence to lodge a protest that, if successful, could overturn the result of the world championship.

    Ferrari are "evaluating footage" that appears to show Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel making an illegal overtaking move in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.

    Fernando Alonso lost the title by three points to Vettel after finishing second for Ferrari and the German sixth.

    Governing body the FIA refused to confirm whether it was investigating.

    Red Bull could not be reached.

    The footage, from Vettel's on-board camera, appears to show the German passing Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne in a yellow 'caution' zone.

    If that is the case, and any protest was upheld, it could mean Vettel would have 20 seconds added to his total race time. That would demote him to eighth place and make Alonso world champion by one point.

    Alonso has posted a cryptic message on the social networking site Twitter that appears to be a reference to the situation.

    He wrote in Spanish: "I don't believe in miracles. I make my miracles out of the correct rules."

    Alonso is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.

    However, the governing body does not need a protest from Ferrari to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.

    Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

    It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."

    That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another.

    A yellow zone - indicated by yellow flags and flashing trackside yellow lights - indicates that drivers must proceed with caution and overtaking is strictly forbidden.

    If a driver is caught overtaking in a yellow-flag zone, the punishment is either to drive through the pits at restricted speed if the race is still under way, or 20 seconds added to a driver's race time if the incident takes place close to the end of the race or is investigated after the race.

    The footage in question was not shown on the main global 'world feed' during the race as it was showing repeats of the start at the time.

    However, it has since emerged on the video sharing site YouTube after audience members recorded it from extra channels of in-car footage, which was broadcasting from Vettel's on-board camera at the time.

    The video - broadcast on the BBC's in-car channel - is embedded at the top of this article.

    Drivers are also alerted to caution zones by an indicator on their car's dashboard display as they pass through the relevant area.

    If there is any discrepancy between a driver's dashboard and the trackside indicators, the flags and lights take precedence - the display is meant solely as a further driver aid.

    The footage clearly shows Vettel passing a flashing yellow light in Turn Two and another at the exit of Turn Three, after which he overtakes Vergne down the straight, completing the move before reaching a flashing green light, indicating the end of the yellow zone, before Turn Four.

    The yellow flag indicator in his cockpit is on the whole time.

    The rules dictate that the 'yellow' zone ends only when the driver passes the first 'green' indicator.

    However, on the footage from Vettel's car it is not possible to see clearly the marshals' post that is situated on the inside of the track at the exit of the pit lane - after the yellow light at Turn Three.

    It is possible that the marshal there was waving a green flag. If he was, the pass on Vergne would be legal and the result would stand.

    A green flag is waved at that post as Vettel passes the Marussia of Charles Pic on lap three, but it is not clear whether it was still being waved on lap four.

    There are some videos on the Internet which seem to show a marshal waving a green flag at that post but it is not clear on the official TV footage.

    The likelihood of any protest being lodged or of any action being taken depends on whether Ferrari or the FIA can establish whether there was a green flag waving at that marshals' post at that time.

    If there was, the case will be closed and no further action will be taken. If there was not a green flag, it is highly likely that the case will go before the FIA Court of Appeal.

    Under a strict interpretation of the rules, it would seem to have little option in that scenario to impose a penalty. But it may well feel it has to evaluate how much of an effect on the result of the race a drive-through penalty for Vettel at the time would have had.

    BBC Sport asked the FIA:
    - If the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix had investigated the incident in question during the race.
    - If there was a green flag waved on lap four at the marshals' post on the inside of the track after the exit of Turn Three.
    - If the FIA was now investigating the incident.

    The FIA declined to comment.

    from what i can gather the problem lies with which indicator do the drivers go by,the yellow lights at the side of the track,the yellow LEDs that are on the steering wheel of the car (in this case Vettels) or the marshalls post where they wave the 'green' flag

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    Full Member chrisvectra's Avatar
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    They will leave the standings as they are no doubt
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    Regular Member john norris's Avatar
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    They have changed it before though I thought this had been put down to warning flags for oil as in red and yellow flags

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    Full Member chrisvectra's Avatar
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    On the sky replays there was a yellow and red flag for a slippery surface and a yellow zone and then a green and then another yellow he in my view overtook in the yellow zone but Ferrari's own pat fry said he wasn't sure
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  6. #6
    Regular Member chewy71's Avatar
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    all looked a bit of a mess didn't it and I'd say the standings will not be changed. Clearly overtook in a yellow, but it was like driving through faulty traffic lights!!

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    Full Member chrisvectra's Avatar
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    Unless Ferrari are protesting I think the results will stand If Ferrari are protesting then anything could happen
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    Regular Member farley2708's Avatar
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    Regular Member Derek Mc's Avatar
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    This was the race of the season, Vettel drove the tyres off that car to come from dead last back to his finishing position, Alonso and Ferarri will bleat and moan about everything to seek advantage, I thought the stunt of cracking the gearbox seal on Massa's car was very unpleasant as they seemed intent on NOT letting the driver and the track decide the standings, so as they seem to always want special favour, I say let them stew.

    I am not a great Vettel fan but feel on balance this season he truly does deserve the title from the people who could have won it (i.e. Alonso)

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    Regular Member john norris's Avatar
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    vettle had the best car out of the top 3

    alonso the worst out of the top 3

    hamilton was let down by his team

    vettel did not deserve to win he should have been way infront of alonso in points

    drove the wheels of his car lol he caused the accident that put him last and took bruno senna out of his home gp, which going by later reactions to accidents should have earnt vettel a drive through

    did anyone fight him for position on the track nope they are all to worried about upsetting bernies golden boy

    vettle has adrian newy to thank for his title not himself

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