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Thread: signum dti hard to start when warm

  1. #1
    Regular Member deano1's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra estate

    Trim : Sri xp2

    Engine : 1.9 cdti 150

    Year : 2008

    Mileage : 100000

    Default signum dti hard to start when warm

    hi i have a 53 reg signum dti and its hard to start once warm as glow plugs not coming on first thing in morning if glow plug light comes on it will start with half a turn.

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    You should wait to hear from someone who knows this engine better than me, but I would guess at the crankshaft sensor. On the 1.9cdti at least, this can show signs of early failure only when the engine is warm, due to an electrical fault I believe.
    Don't take my word for it though, someone else will know more...
    Good luck!

  3. #3
    VIP-Member Z80's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Vectra GTS

    Trim : Elegance

    Engine : 2.2 DTi 16V

    Year : 2003

    Mileage : 75 000

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    Agree.

    Diesels only need current to power the starter (and the injection, of course). Glow plugs should even be useless when the engine is hot...

    But there may be some electrical failure somewhere. The best to do is having the car diagnosed (Tech2 at the garage, or Vaux-Com if someone can lend one).

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    Vehicle : Golf 7

    Trim : GTD

    Engine : 2.0 TDI 184PS

    Year : 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z80 View Post
    Diesels only need current to power the starter
    Why? The physics behind this is..... The only thing that differs electrically between the two is the one is ignited via a spark (petrol) the other is ignition due to compression (deisel). The starters are the same on both.

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    Vehicle : Golf 7

    Trim : GTD

    Engine : 2.0 TDI 184PS

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 40000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z80 View Post
    Diesels only need current to power the starter
    indeed you are so correct.
    Last edited by GazVXLINE170; 15th September 2012 at 00:42.

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    Was there not an ECU software update for poor warm starting on the DTi's?

    ---Sent from my iPhone 4 using Forum Runner.

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    Admin & Merchandise Manager bigmac's Avatar
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    Vehicle : insignia

    Trim : irmscher

    Engine : 2.0 cdti

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    Yes there was an update it altered the glow plug timings slightly, check my threads regarding poor starting from warm

    My guess is even if you think battery is good replace it for a brand new one first then if it's no better replace starter motor

    Irmscher Insignia CDTI 130

    MOD'S...Irmscher front spoiler, Irmscher mats, Irmscher door pins, Irmscher rear spoiler, Irmscher grille, Irmscher skirt & exhausts,Irmscher Roof spoiler MOD'S TO COME..Side skirts,Wheels

  8. #8
    VIP-Member Z80's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Vectra GTS

    Trim : Elegance

    Engine : 2.2 DTi 16V

    Year : 2003

    Mileage : 75 000

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    Quote Originally Posted by GazCDTI150 View Post
    Why? The physics behind this is..... The only thing that differs electrically between the two is the one is ignited via a spark (petrol) the other is ignition due to compression (deisel). The starters are the same on both.
    I mean that 1) the higher compression level on diesels calls for a stronger starter and a stronger (and healthy) battery, and 2) It only needs current then, as diesel engines burn without any electricity needed, or just a very small amount left to power the ECU and injector, but not so much, considering I could always have mine jump started and drive to a station to buy a battery, or to a garage when it was something else, such as the alternator (rewired) or damper pulley, and this with an almost completely empty battery. On the same DTi engine, BTW.

    As a consequence, and provided the glow plugs are only needed in cold weather (and cold engine), and considering the weather isn't cold right now where you live and it was stated the engine was hot, the problem can barely be related to the glow plugs.

    On the other hand, if it was a problem with the starter, it would be even worse when the car is cold, and he said he only has the problem when it's hot.

    Unless maybe there's something wrong with the coil, after all. Now a dying battery may also behave worse when hot...

    But the fact it happens when the engine is hot calls first for engine or electronics related problems.

    I would really have the car diagnosed first (actually, I'd do it myself with the Op-Cop).



    Now thinking about it, maybe the glow plugs are still needed to help the fuel start burning, as they maybe heat it much more than I may think. After all, we do change them here, despite hot outside temperatures.

    The fact that the dashboard indicator isn't showing when the problem occurs may mean some defective sensor fools the ECU in thinking the fuel is hot enough, or maybe a faulty glow plug may short-circuit when the engine is hot...

    But I wouldn't probably just replace the glow plugs, maybe for nothing, before performing a diagnostic.
    Last edited by Z80; 15th September 2012 at 12:31.

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    Vehicle : Golf 7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z80 View Post
    I mean that 1) the higher compression level on diesels calls for a stronger starter and a stronger (and healthy) battery, and 2) It only needs current then, as diesel engines burn without any electricity needed, or just a very small amount left to power the ECU and injector, but not so much, considering I could always have mine jump started and drive to a station to buy a battery, or to a garage when it was something else, such as the alternator (rewired) or damper pulley, and this with an almost completely empty battery. On the same DTi engine, BTW.

    As a consequence, and provided the glow plugs are only needed in cold weather (and cold engine), and considering the weather isn't cold right now where you live and it was stated the engine was hot, the problem can barely be related to the glow plugs.

    On the other hand, if it was a problem with the starter, it would be even worse when the car is cold, and he said he only has the problem when it's hot.

    Unless maybe there's something wrong with the coil, after all. Now a dying battery may also behave worse when hot...

    But the fact it happens when the engine is hot calls first for engine or electronics related problems.

    I would really have the car diagnosed first (actually, I'd do it myself with the Op-Cop).
    Read the post after the one you quoted instead of the usual long winded explanation. But generally as current in a motor provides more of the 'force' needed due to the high compression of diesels. I would have thought a healthy battery would be needed on any engine for starting as that is when the electrical system is put under quite a bit of strain.
    Last edited by GazVXLINE170; 15th September 2012 at 12:31.

  10. #10
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    Forget glowplugs and replace Crank Sensor as first port of call as said on post number 2

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