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Thread: The big three (TB3)?

  1. #1
    Regular Member mickydoos's Avatar
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    Default The big three (TB3)?

    Hi guys, as I will be installing a second amp soon and bringing my system up to almost 1000w RMS I want to do the big three.

    Problem is is that I can only identify the battery to ground connection. I can't really tell where the battery connects to the engine block and can't see the alternator to chassis connection at all. Mainly because it all disappears into cable tidy style hoses.

    Has anybody else got on pictures of where these wires run? Bear in mind I have a 1.8.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Regular Member mickydoos's Avatar
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    Wow, in a year no one?

  3. #3
    VIP-Member Z80's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Vectra GTS

    Trim : Elegance

    Engine : 2.2 DTi 16V

    Year : 2003

    Mileage : 75 000

    Default

    There are two main connections.

    The most important in your cas is the battery to ground connection : it's bolted to the left hand side shock absorber well, you can't miss it. I'm going to ugprade this one as well.

    Next is the wire to the alternator. This one will be part of the loom that passes in front of the battery, just behind the upper front crossmember. Just follow the wires...

    Now I'm not absolutely sure it's worth the hassle, though of course, it can't harm. The alternator won't deliver more than the 140 Amps the largest model is able to provide anyway (though the GM wire is actually quite thin for 140 A but it's not too long either).

    The point to using thicker wire for the car body ground path is your amplifiers may require burst current. otherwise, the OEM wire is probably enough, provided a 140 alternator is working with the OEM wire, and 1000 W / 12 V is only 83.3 A (or 1000 W / 13.6 = 73.5 A etc.). It depends on how you calculate 1000 W anyway : makers generally take the mots advantageous figures (for instance, they probably took 14.6 V which means you'll have 1000 / 14.6 = 68.4 A "only"), and i'm not sure 1000 W are RMS... Rather Watts "max" (peak) at volume values that will so badly distort it would be awful to listen to, meaning you'll most probably never use them.

    If I trusted these figures, my amplifiers would exceed 2000 W... While I'm only totalising 1290 W RMS under 4 ohms, and it's once again maximum values.

    It means the 100 Amps fast electromagnetic circuit breaker I fitted just at the battery will be enough in any circumstances and will never trigger open, unless I'm overloading the amplifiers with clipping input signal or fitting several speakers in parallel on each output (after all, my subwoofer amplifier is stable under 1 ohm and can deliver 900 W RMS then), but since it's an SQ setup and not an SPL one, it will never happen.

    My power supply wires are 35 mm² (2 AWG) and they're enough of a hassle to route through the car. Some people fit 50 mm², but it's expensive, heavy, and hard to curve... Not even talking about finding matching terminals (I've used industrial ring terminals and had to use a blowtorch to solder them).
    Last edited by Z80; 29th July 2013 at 04:19.

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    Regular Member mickydoos's Avatar
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    It's a DLS A7 mate. 2x200w RMS and 600w RMS sub channel.

    I've already done the battery to earth, that was easy peasy.

    I've already gotten my zero gauge so no additional cost now lol.

    I'm getting slightly dimming etc and that's with my old vibe amp which is 600w RMS (though being used with a 300w sub so not pushed too hard)

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    Regular Member mickydoos's Avatar
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    Default

    It's a DLS A7 mate. 2x200w RMS and 600w RMS sub channel.

    I've already done the battery to earth, that was easy peasy.

    I've already gotten my zero gauge so no additional cost now lol.

    I'm getting slightly dimming etc and that's with my old vibe amp which is 600w RMS (though being used with a 300w sub so not pushed too hard)

  6. #6
    VIP-Member Z80's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Vectra GTS

    Trim : Elegance

    Engine : 2.2 DTi 16V

    Year : 2003

    Mileage : 75 000

    Default

    OK, so it looks like now you need a stronger battery, maybe an Optima, if it can fit ?

    And hey, have you heard of those babies ?

    http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/f...citor-wow.html

  7. #7
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    Vehicle : Dodge Journey

    Trim : SXT

    Engine : 2.0Tdi (VW Engine)

    Year : 2010

    Mileage : 53000

    Default

    A power cap only hides the problem it doesn't solve it, anyway even if it is put into a system that's set up correctly ( wouldn't need it if the system is running correctly) it only take slight spikes out eg smooths the power. All the top installs don't use power caps.

  8. #8
    Section Moderator ThatAudioBloke's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra

    Trim : SRi

    Engine : CDTI 150

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 103000

    Default

    I'm running a vibe monobox 3 at 4ohm through 4awg cabling front to back with no such dimming when the bass drops. This is slated to put out 500w RMS.

    There's loads of things you can check to figure out why the lights dim. Primarily the amp's earth point - where have you earthed your amp to? There is an OEM earthing point at the rear of the car as you look into the boot, on your left. Just beside the spare wheel well. It is a good, clean earth and has given me no hassles using it.

    As for the big three, you can ground the alternator casing to the chassis, the alternator positive can be hooked direct to the battery and you've already done the battery to chassis. You can leave the original wiring there while adding to it with the big 3, current follows the path of least resistance and by giving it more paths to choose, the resistance drops.

    Don't waste your money on a capacitor. Or at least not until you've upgraded everything else first. Personally, the alternator on a 1.8 I think may be the weak link in this whole setup, you might find that it is only a 100amp alternator, in which case it'll struggle to keep up with whatever load you give it. Remembering that the load required by the amp is in addition to the rest of the electrical systems on the car.

    A good post to reference TB3 is on The12Volt here: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...TID~73496~PN~1

  9. #9
    Section Moderator ThatAudioBloke's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra

    Trim : SRi

    Engine : CDTI 150

    Year : 2006

    Mileage : 103000

    Default

    Regarding caps, SMD/D'Amore did a good test on them. Cap use is akin to a holy war topic in car audio circles, I'll state now that I'm an anti-cap type myself.

    Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURfjZAVKFY - Sine waves
    Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8Ys9f6BA - Dynamic bursts

  10. #10
    Regular Member mickydoos's Avatar
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    Default

    I wasnt planning on a cap anyway. That's the same amp I'm running mate, same wiring, relatively new battery. Also using the OEM earth point you mentioned lol.

    It was much improved when i did the battery->ground so im hoping non existant once ive done zero gauge.

    On the plus side I've gotten myself a Pioneer P8600MP and despite the sub being out of the car at the mo, much improved SQ.

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