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Thread: Very poorly - Suspect SCV/Pump

  1. #1
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Signum

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 2005

    Mileage : 103000

    Default Very poorly - Suspect SCV/Pump

    After changing the filter again, car was ok, then the next morning it was holding back at higher revs again. On the drive home it was completely holding back. To the point that it cut the engine a few times (once on the dual carriageway), it's an auto so had to select neutral to restart whilst rolling (which it always did).

    Idle is perfect and you can steadily, but only steadily make progress.

    Booked into Phoenix Croydon tomorrow. I took out a warranty with warranty wise and had all the bells and whistles added.

    I have a £3K single claim, so hoping it's well under that!

  2. #2
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Signum

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 2005

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    You've got to laugh, or you'll cry. Vauxhall have my car, had to pay for a one hour diagnosis, fair enough. They rang me after having the car all day and described the symptoms I'd had for me, great, then told me no fault codes stored again great I knew this. Now they want another hour of diagnosis as they need to take bits apart to do some fuel pressure tests. Yawn! Just fail the pump and I can have it replaced. GRRRRR

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    I know! It's crazy I went in and said I wanted the SCV's doing and they said no, they wanted diagnostics and to replace some other cheaper bits first! All chargeable to me of course!

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    Regular Member Critch's Avatar
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    I'd be questioning why that wasn't done in the first hours diagnosis tbh?

    As they can get a pressure reading on the tech2 of demanded an actuall pressures

  5. #5
    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wotsthestory View Post
    they want another hour of diagnosis as they need to take bits apart to do some fuel pressure tests
    Refer the matter to the warranty company, make sure they are willing to pay for all diagnosis work

    As above, there should be no reason to perform a second diagnostic, sounds more like inexperience and not obtaining Field Remedy 1957 (unless it is some other fault)

  6. #6
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Signum

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 2005

    Mileage : 103000

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    It's walking the fine line, do I just say, excuse me but have you read Field Remedy 1957? But at the same time keeping things right for the warranty, as I told them, no matter what you say to the warranty company, please do not suggest whether true or otherwise (as it is difficult to prove anyway) fuel contamination. As there is a nice little clause that suggests they MAY reject if there is sign of external contamination. As Field Remedy 1957 specifically refers to fuel contamination and other deposits potentially causing the SCV's to fail and therefore requiring the whole fuel system to be cleaned in addition to SCV replacement. You can see how I'm cautious. Ideally I want them to scratch their heads and just replace the whole pump, as my warranty would cover that cost, mainly because as has been said before, the SCV's don't necessarily outlive a normal fuel pumps operating life. Currently at 7 Years/81K.

    As it stands the warranty company say they will refund reasonable diagnostics, basically it's been 1 hour of doing stuff I've already done and I'm not a mechanic. Plugged the computer, as usual established no fault codes and can see a marked fuel pressure drop, when load increases, to the point of cutting out.

    I've just been suprised at how quickly this happened given previous experiences.

    Made sure my only modification was removed prior to taking it in (a K&N panel filter) I've been careful to ensure all (possible) conditions have been met.

    Do I nudge them? Like I say, I'd rather have the fuel pump replaced than just the SCV's done. But I certainly don't want them scratching their backsides for a couple more hours because their laptop won't tell them what's wrong with my car ...

  7. #7
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Signum

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 2005

    Mileage : 103000

    Default

    I decided to tell them about FR1957 this morning, after an hour or so, they came back and said the engineer was looking at that when I called. Does that smell of anything?

    Anyway, they have replaced the fuel filter and they say it's ok, they did note the one on there looked OK, I pointed out that was because it was brand new a week ago and it was fine for a little bit then played up again.

    Apparently on a road test it was all fine and pressures were as expected, I explained that it had been changed a week ago and it was fine for about 40-50 miles and then it was just the same. They said oh they wouldn't charge me for the filter and absorb in the two hours labour. So good to me eh?

    They are going to do a cold start tomorrow and then let me know.

    Obviously I can't have any warranty work done whilst they are unable (or incapable) of diagnosing a fault, what happens when it comes back. I have to go back there as I will have surrendered two hours of my hard earned.

    I guess there is the small (very small) possibility that it has cleared up completely, but I think that highly unlikely.

    I will insist on an accompanied road test tomorrow.

    Advice please?

  8. #8
    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Is this garage a dealership?
    If so, they should be contacting / requesting the Area Technician to attend if they do not understand the issue

    The symptoms are consistent with a blocked SCV, with erratic response
    Replacing the Fuel Filter will not make any difference
    Equally, a road test may not be sufficient as the issue is related to the power usage and conditions
    The issue will gradually get worse as the blockage increases, and once it has reached 70% the EMS should operate Safe Mode and become more consistent with complete lack of power
    In my case the car wouldn't rev high enough to even get to second gear

    Keep reporting the issue until the garage take the matter seriously
    I had to take my car in three times before the Area Technician examined the car and diagnosed the issue for them in under 10 minutes

    The best symptom description is applying power, but having the footbrake surging
    I found this was best done on a long flat dual carriageway at about 50 to 60mph in 6th gear
    The driver would then notice and agree about the feeling of what was like braking

  9. #9
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Signum

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 2005

    Mileage : 103000

    Default

    Sadly in Croydon, dual carriageways are a fair trot away (that you can legally hit those sort of speeds). If I put mine in 2nd (manual mode), it will never hit the limiter as it changes up into 3rd usually just before the limiter when it's working fine. I couldn't get past 2K perhaps a bit more. When I took it in on Friday I could barely get past 1500 revs without it cutting out. Because it's an auto it cuts out, rather than being able to bump start in motion, so it's clearly lost all fuel pressure. I could see this using my Torque Android app, I have a copy of the data logged at that time, you could see a RAPID drop in fuel pressure as you pressed harder when driving.

    It is a main dealer, Phoenix in Croydon.

    Apparently software was up to date with the requirement for FR1957, which doesn't surprise me as I had my car checked for all updates in March when I got it. No errors and no safe mode activated. Only other fault code seen by me previously (and not current) was P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire, suggesting a failing injector but that was a lot better after the fuel filter change. In fact that wasn't an issue when I took it in, as there wasn't the uneven idle I had occasionally experienced. Even then a single failed injector would make the car lumpy but not the dramatic drop off as occurs with SCV failure? In theory it would run better than a car with failed SCV's, but obviously still rubbish.

  10. #10
    Regular Member wotsthestory's Avatar
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    OK, Draws Breath, Sighs and here we go.

    Car is still at VX. After telling me it would be ready yesterday as they have fixed it, I asked why, as they had no authority to fix anything. No answer, will call me back tomorrow, tomorrow you just said the car is ready today. OK, whatever.

    Anyway, called today, car is nearly ready. Nearly? But I can't collect today, I got a (semi) techie so asked what was going on. Firstly, I asked why work had been done that hadn't been authorised, they said it was ok they had applied FR1957. Ah ok, so you've replaced my SCV's under your diagnosis fee then? Er no, we've followed FR1957 and done what it said, I asked them to expand. They have replaced some fuel seals???? There are and never have been any sign of ANY leaks on the car, air, fuel or water. In fact it's one of the cleanest cars I've seen. Cleaned out fuel lines (which apparently were a little dirty) and replaced the fuel filter, which I re-iterated had only been done a week ago. They again mentioned that the software was all up to date, I again advised I knew this.

    So I asked why my car wasn't ready, they said it needed a new fuel filter seal, again I advised that had been replaced a week ago. They said with the number of times they've had it on and off they may have trapped or damaged it so are replacing free/gratis. This comes with an off the shelf fuel filter (which I have a spare one here).

    I asked what happens if (when) this fails again in the next week or two, they said they'd have it in to replace the SCV's. I asked them for a quote to be supplied, alongside the full report on what has been done. In addition they mentioned they'd seen this engine once before, they think it's an Isuzu, so bonus point there!

    I'm mystified, this is the first time I have ever visited a main dealer to have my car looked at, is this normal?

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