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Thread: Idiot Alert.........

  1. #1
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    Default Idiot Alert.........

    Hi Everyone,

    Quick question.

    I'm looking at the maptun 324mm big brake conversion with 4 pot callipers for my 2.2 SRi.

    I have recently read a couple of things about the Vectra C requiring 6 pot callipers as a minimum due to the weight of the car; apparently some companies do not recommend 4 pots for the Vectra C.

    However, I thought the standard brakes (Inc GSI, VXR) only had single pistons? If these are fitted as standard surely a big brake conversion with 4 pots is better?!!!

  2. #2
    Ex Vec-C Admin Ian-Highlander's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Insignia Tourer

    Trim : Elite

    Engine : 2.0 CDTI (160ps)

    Year : 2010

    Default

    6 pots on a 2.2 is overkill IMO. As you say the standard ones are single piston.

    There are two standard upgrade paths you could take using Vauxhall callipers, the 314mm setup (as fitted to the V6's mainly) and the 345mm (VXR). But these too are single piston callipers.

    If the Maptun ones are 4 pot they are going to be a considerable improvement over standard either way.

    This is the standard brake arrangement for each type.

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    Regular Member Critch's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Mk1 renault scenic... I know I know but it drives

    Trim : Basic

    Engine : 1.6 16v

    Year : 2003

    Default

    4 pots will be fine mate. Courtney sell 4 or 6 pot conversion.

    And your right they all standard with sliding caliper. My v6 Cdti has only got 314 sliding calipers

  4. #4
    spoons
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    Default

    I remember having this coversation years ago with AP Racing.

    They wont recommend 4 Pot brake kits on the Vectra-C because of the weight of the car.

    Remember that they are coming from the 'race quality' angle.

    6 Pot calipers are best suited to the Vectra-C platform in race conditions.

    The Vectra VXR standard brake setup does have single pistons but I can tell you they wont handle race conditions. They fade after a few laps, no more than 15 minutes at full race use.

    But as most drivers are not in race conditions, standard brakes or 4 pot brakes would be fine.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Ben50n's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spoons View Post
    I remember having this coversation years ago with AP Racing.

    They wont recommend 4 Pot brake kits on the Vectra-C because of the weight of the car.

    Remember that they are coming from the 'race quality' angle.

    6 Pot calipers are best suited to the Vectra-C platform in race conditions.

    The Vectra VXR standard brake setup does have single pistons but I can tell you they wont handle race conditions. They fade after a few laps, no more than 15 minutes at full race use.

    But as most drivers are not in race conditions, standard brakes or 4 pot brakes would be fine.
    My understanding is that brake fade is normally caused by overheating, the heat then effectively boils the fluid, causing gas pockets which compress rather then the fluid pressing on the pistons. So the need for improved cooling, rather then increased number of pistons?? And possibly the brake pad material burning. Its a shame we had to stop using asbestos in brake pads, they lasted for a long time, didnt make your wheels black and the discs themselves were harder.

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    Default

    Thanks to all who have replied. A lot of useful information! I have decided on the VXR 345mm brake upgrade. They should fit behind my XP2 wheels shouldn't they?

  7. #7
    spoons
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben50n View Post
    My understanding is that brake fade is normally caused by overheating, the heat then effectively boils the fluid, causing gas pockets which compress rather then the fluid pressing on the pistons. So the need for improved cooling, rather then increased number of pistons?? And possibly the brake pad material burning. Its a shame we had to stop using asbestos in brake pads, they lasted for a long time, didnt make your wheels black and the discs themselves were harder.
    Yeah heat is a massive cause of fade.

    More pistons equal more pressure across the pad. But as you say, heat needs to be taken away fast.

    On my AP Racing setup I have

    - External brake ducts drawing in cool air to the brakes
    - 6 Pistons giving a wider spread of pressure
    - Vented Discs giving extra cooling
    - Grooved Discs allowing excessive gas buildup to be released
    - DS2500 racing pads to keep high temperature performance
    - American Oils R600+ racing fluid to prevent boiling
    - Goodridge Braided hoses to prevent pipe expansion under heat

    All this is delivered through a dual braking system, so its fairly good on the track. Never get brake fade, it just bites every lap and very consistent

  8. #8
    spoons
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    Default

    Also, single piston brakes (standard on all the Vectras) have one piston at one side, pushing on a plate on the other side.

    On the uprated 4 pot and 6 pot calipers you have pistons on both sides creating massive clamping forces.

    Much better in my opinion

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