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Thread: The usual confusion of low power

  1. #1
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    Default The usual confusion of low power

    The problem is I have come from a 110bhp 1.9Tdi Toledo, it was quickish, really responsive, particularly in 1st and 2nd, so given the Vectra 2.2dti (Y22DTR) has more power and torque I expect more performance.

    Car yard dramas I won't bore you with, so ignore that for the moment.

    Symptoms are next to no power, in 1st and 2nd I can rev hard, will not limp, can carry on through the gears as long as not rushed or under load, managed to do 85 on motorway. It basically feels like the turbo is not doing its thing, yet I can hear it, well I can here it dumping on gear changes. If I try and achieve the 10.5s 0-60mph it will limp as soon as I hit 3rd gear, which, in itself the 10s mark is nearly up anyway. I can't hear any air hissing.

    The feeling is reminiscent of my Toledo before my MAF was fixed (yes fixed, the loom had a loose wire, not a faulty MAF, took me ages to track that one down), once it was fixed, BAM, the turbo was on song and it actually pulled.

    Anyway, had a garage near work clean EGR, boost sensor and throttle body, made negligible difference, had my auto sparky read codes, had P0650-04 (MIL circuit error) and P0234-5B. He ran a live diag and could only get 98kpa when the computer asking for 116kpa, so perhaps a boost leak or turbo fault.

    Tonight I chucked a can of 10k boost through it, cleared heaps of crap out, took it out for a thrash and the first few miles I could not get limp mode, then after sitting at 4k in 2nd gear for a mile, stopped for a few sets of lights, then floored it, hit 50mph, into limp mode like hitting a wall. restarted at next lights, cruised for a bit, then tried a flooring it again, when changing up to 3rd it went limp again. Now, it felt better than before I did the 10k boost, but its still lacking power, so I don't know whether to run another can through, or just take it to my "guy" to strip turbo and check vacuum pipes.

    What is making it difficult, after reading issues on here, mine seems a bit different, as I say no power, but the idle is smooth as, though I do suspect the gauge is out as it reads 250rpm instead of 750rpm at idle, unless of 1500rpm at 70mph is the norm too.

    So, just hoping someone might have some input that may help me before I decide if I want to have it stripped this weekend.

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    Oh, forgot to mention that on startup I get a squeal, presumably some belt, but only for a millisecond, and when I shut off the engine shudders to a halt, do these cars not have anti shudder butterflies?

    Also, I have seen mention of 2 DTIs for 2003, is that true? We couldn't read the engine type, so my guy rang someone with my number plate and he said it was a Y22DTR, which we assume is correct, but as I say, I thought I had read of 2 dtis that year.

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    Had a look at the EGR yesterday, it would appear the garage did not clean it, despite being asked to, I think they need to learn better english, I didn't think they understood me properly. So will try and again tomorrow, this time point out the part I want them to clean. If my printer is working at the office then will print out the before and after pictures in the How2 for them as well, no excuses then.
    I hate having to drive like a grandma, I miss my Toledo and the daily thrashing.

  4. #4
    Regular Member justin32's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Vectra c SRI Facelift

    Trim : SRI

    Engine : 1.9 CDTI 150

    Year : 2006

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    Have you checked all the pipes for holes or splits?

    Seems quite a common problem

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    Vehicle : vauxhall vivaro

    Trim : Basic

    Engine : 1.9

    Year : 2004

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    Try a different garage. As that one clearly isn't up to stratch.

    As above do basics hand an eye checks for splits.
    Egr cleaned. Could also be boost solenoid

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    Are you saying you don't know if it's a 2.2dti or 2.0? The engines do look the same but I believe the Engine number Is stamped on the block somewhere. As for the idle speed that is way out! It should be 750-800 rpm.

    This is a complete wild shot in the dark but I wonder if someone has put a 2.0 ECU on a 2.2 block or vice versa. As I said a complete shot in the dark as I've never heard of it before but it may explain why your rev range is out and the live diag wasn't throwing up the right results.

    As others have stated before check for splits in the vacuum pipes and intercooler hoses.

    Yes these engines do have anti juddered butterfly's in the inlet manifold air intak housing. It's controlled by a vacuum pipe. Some people take the pipe off and block it so the butterfly stays open. They believe it helps with low down acceleration. I tried it but didn't notice any real difference and the shut down was alot juddery. Check that your butterfly can actually move freely and isn't jammed half closed. The default position is open and when the engine switches off the vacuum pulls it shut.


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    Quote Originally Posted by justin32 View Post
    Have you checked all the pipes for holes or splits?

    Seems quite a common problem
    yeah, checked all that, one was a little suspect at the end, but I couldn't hear any hissing, but I did put some insulation tape around to make sure, made no difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Innes View Post
    Are you saying you don't know if it's a 2.2dti or 2.0? The engines do look the same but I believe the Engine number Is stamped on the block somewhere. As for the idle speed that is way out! It should be 750-800 rpm.

    This is a complete wild shot in the dark but I wonder if someone has put a 2.0 ECU on a 2.2 block or vice versa. As I said a complete shot in the dark as I've never heard of it before but it may explain why your rev range is out and the live diag wasn't throwing up the right results.

    As others have stated before check for splits in the vacuum pipes and intercooler hoses.

    Yes these engines do have anti juddered butterfly's in the inlet manifold air intak housing. It's controlled by a vacuum pipe. Some people take the pipe off and block it so the butterfly stays open. They believe it helps with low down acceleration. I tried it but didn't notice any real difference and the shut down was alot juddery. Check that your butterfly can actually move freely and isn't jammed half closed. The default position is open and when the engine switches off the vacuum pulls it shut.

    No, I know its Y22DTR, it is just completely gutless. Since I've cleaned the boost solenoid and run some 10k Boost through the turbo it is a tiny bit better, particularly above 2000rpm, but it is still less than desirable, and below 2000rpm it is more a brisk walk than sprinting, or even jogging for that matter.

    Engine idle is odd, but I have a bluetooth OBD2 coming, so I will get torque and see what that reckons my idle speed is. I think it is just a case of the needle being out, not the revs being low.

    I think the live diag was showing the right results, the car is gutless, like its an old non turbo diesel, and the pressure asked and pressure given backs that up, basically it was running at ambient pressure 98kpa rather than high pressure 116kpa.

    I haven't specifically checked the intercooler hoses yet, I'll have a look on here for the obvious culprits and take a look, but otherwise throttle body and boost cleaned, EGR yet to be cleaned.

    I did find the butterfly actuator in the end, I was playing with it on the weekend, and appears to be working fine, just odd to have a rough shut down with it, or perhaps after coming from a VAG engine to a GM engine I am expecting too much.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Signum-Steve's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Jaguar S-Type V6

    Trim : Sport

    Engine : Petrol

    Year : 2003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by krisby View Post
    The problem is I have come from a 110bhp 1.9Tdi Toledo, it was quickish, really responsive, particularly in 1st and 2nd, so given the Vectra 2.2dti (Y22DTR) has more power and torque I expect more performance.

    Car yard dramas I won't bore you with, so ignore that for the moment.

    Symptoms are next to no power, in 1st and 2nd I can rev hard, will not limp, can carry on through the gears as long as not rushed or under load, managed to do 85 on motorway. It basically feels like the turbo is not doing its thing, yet I can hear it, well I can here it dumping on gear changes. If I try and achieve the 10.5s 0-60mph it will limp as soon as I hit 3rd gear, which, in itself the 10s mark is nearly up anyway. I can't hear any air hissing.

    The feeling is reminiscent of my Toledo before my MAF was fixed (yes fixed, the loom had a loose wire, not a faulty MAF, took me ages to track that one down), once it was fixed, BAM, the turbo was on song and it actually pulled.

    Anyway, had a garage near work clean EGR, boost sensor and throttle body, made negligible difference, had my auto sparky read codes, had P0650-04 (MIL circuit error) and P0234-5B. He ran a live diag and could only get 98kpa when the computer asking for 116kpa, so perhaps a boost leak or turbo fault.

    Tonight I chucked a can of 10k boost through it, cleared heaps of crap out, took it out for a thrash and the first few miles I could not get limp mode, then after sitting at 4k in 2nd gear for a mile, stopped for a few sets of lights, then floored it, hit 50mph, into limp mode like hitting a wall. restarted at next lights, cruised for a bit, then tried a flooring it again, when changing up to 3rd it went limp again. Now, it felt better than before I did the 10k boost, but its still lacking power, so I don't know whether to run another can through, or just take it to my "guy" to strip turbo and check vacuum pipes.

    What is making it difficult, after reading issues on here, mine seems a bit different, as I say no power, but the idle is smooth as, though I do suspect the gauge is out as it reads 250rpm instead of 750rpm at idle, unless of 1500rpm at 70mph is the norm too.

    So, just hoping someone might have some input that may help me before I decide if I want to have it stripped this weekend.
    The highlighted part of your post is a classic split hose scenario I changed mine for silicone ones for a couple of quid (Cheap fix) from ebay. Innes has went further with his and replaced the intercooler pipe. Innes also has a layout photo on one of his threads I'm sure this will help you find your problem.

    putting tape on the end will not fix the problem you will need to replace the pipe work to make sure. The black rubber DTI vacuum pipe does perish. The holes are sometimes really hard to find.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Innes's Avatar
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    The silicone replacement hoses are £6 fir 3 meters. You'll need 2mm inner diameter. It's a piece of cake to change. Just take one pipe off at a time cut the silicone to that length with scissors. 20 min job.

    Here's a pic of the usual suspects:


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