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Thread: How to lower exhaust gas temperatures?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Celes's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Signum

    Trim : Sport

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 12/03

    Default How to lower exhaust gas temperatures?

    My question is...how to lower exhaust gas temperatures in the combustion chamber, without excessive tuning of the engine's injection system (I'm having in mind the water-methanol thing) ? My engine is the 3.0CDTi and it would really benefit from it (as it's this what kills it), as would probably any other engine.

    Feel free to start a debate, as I'm really interested in your opinions (especially from the owner of the heavily tuned 1.9 ).

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    Nutron & Harvey are both running water/meth set ups

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    The V6 has a very short stroke for a diesel engine. It's actually about the same as a 3 litre 6 cylinder petrol engine. This doesn't help the cylinders ability to dissipate heat very well after the compression stroke. It's one of the reasons that the V6 never received much in the way of bhp upgrades in the same way that the longer stroke engines of BMW, Merc and Audi etc have.

    Bore 87.50 mm × Stroke 82.00 mm 3.44 in × 3.23 in. Isuzu 3 litre

    Bore 84.00 mm × Stroke 90.00 mm 3.31 in × 3.54 in. BMW 3 litre (current spec)

    Bore 83.0 mm x Stroke 91.4 mm 3.27 in × 3.60 in. Audi 3 litre (current spec)

    Bore 83 mm x Stroke 92 mm 3.3 in x 3.60 in. Merc 3 litre (current spec)


    It's limitation is that it was purposely designed for FWD cars that needed a compact but refined engine. It's also not helped by having gearing that's too low on the manual cars.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Celes's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Signum

    Trim : Sport

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 12/03

    Default

    Can certainly see your point there mate. The stroke is 10mm! shorter compared to the 3.0 merc diesel

    How about a remap that's specified for better economy, not higher power output? Would that somehow lower EGT's? I'm looking into SKN Germany offers for ECO-Tuning, but their remaps cost 1000€!!

    http://www.skn-tuning.de
    ECO-Tuning map
    Standard: 130kW/177PS, 370Nm
    Remap: 140kW/190PS, 400Nm

    ECO-Tuning map + higher output map on full throttle
    Standard: 130kW/177PS, 370Nm
    Remap: 155kW/211PS, 440Nm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celes View Post
    Can certainly see your point there mate. The stroke is 10mm! shorter compared to the 3.0 merc diesel
    It doesn't help with the development of more power, unless you're prepared to burn considerably more fuel in order to achieve it. Which brings us on to your next question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celes View Post
    How about a remap that's specified for better economy, not higher power output? Would that somehow lower EGT's? I'm looking into SKN Germany offers for ECO-Tuning, but their remaps cost 1000€!!

    http://www.skn-tuning.de
    ECO-Tuning map
    Standard: 130kW/177PS, 370Nm
    Remap: 140kW/190PS, 400Nm

    ECO-Tuning map + higher output map on full throttle
    Standard: 130kW/177PS, 370Nm
    Remap: 155kW/211PS, 440Nm
    Do you actually use the full amount of power and torque that you already have available in your engine? Why do you think that increasing these will lower EGT's?

    Frankly the mind boggles at the suggestion that actually increasing the engines output at any part of the rev range will lower EGT's or indeed improve fuel economy in a car that already has more than enough grunt in the first place.

    I'm sure that these so called 'eco maps' are just way of getting people to buy remaps for another reason. A true eco map that saves you fuel and lowers EGT's would probably involve detuning your engine and fitting a very heavy accelerator pedal spring. But who's going to buy that?

    If you want to lower EGT's, the simple way is to use less fuel. You may actually want to think about removing some power and torque from the engine. Have a sort of lazy variation of a 1.9 150.

    If they had done that on the Saabs, they probably wouldn't have had any problems. LOL

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    Regular Member Derek Mc's Avatar
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    Sadly the best way to cool the exhaust stream is to use a recirculated exhaust gas, as it fills the space void that react-able fresh air would otherwise fill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Mc View Post
    Sadly the best way to cool the exhaust stream is to use a recirculated exhaust gas, as it fills the space void that react-able fresh air would otherwise fill.
    This is true. But sadly, also very misunderstood.

    You obviously can't use it at full load or full throttle where EGT's would be highest, but it does help to cool the engine more during the time that it isn't under full load or full throttle, which is about 95% of the time.

    Think of how you would increase EGT's, and then do the opposite.
    Last edited by diesel dog; 15th May 2011 at 16:44.

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    Regular Member Celes's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Opel Signum

    Trim : Sport

    Engine : 3.0 CDTI

    Year : 12/03

    Default

    Thing is that when I drive in Germany I always have that underlying fear, that the cylinder liners will let go under full throttle. Not that I use all the power all the time, but still, driving at 120-130 for extended periods of time is not good for this engine, even though some say that if you're under 4000rpm you're safe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celes View Post
    Thing is that when I drive in Germany I always have that underlying fear, that the cylinder liners will let go under full throttle. Not that I use all the power all the time, but still, driving at 120-130 for extended periods of time is not good for this engine, even though some say that if you're under 4000rpm you're safe...
    It's time you got yourself that F40 box with the 3.35 or 3.09 diff.

    Seriously though. Increasing the fuelling at those revs or any other revs will only increase EGT's (if you use all of the extra power). Only other thing to suggest is that you don't drive at 120-130 for extended periods of time. LOL
    Last edited by diesel dog; 15th May 2011 at 17:46.

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    Vehicle : Vectra

    Trim : SRI

    Engine : 3.0 V6 CDTI

    Year : 2007

    Default

    Read this before listening to Diesel Dog:

    http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137471

    Increasing fuelling at higher revs would reduce the power and produce more black smoke, at high revs there is more fuel than air and adding more would make that worse.
    Think of the reason that the EGR is closed under hard acceleration, it would restrict the amount of air going into the cylinder by mixing the 'clean' air with 'dirty' air from the exhaust and produce less power but increase black smoke due to more unburnt fuel due to the lack of oxygen.

    Possibly water/methanol:
    http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/

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