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Thread: Advanced or retarded?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Grumpy1954's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Ford Kuga

    Trim : Titanium

    Engine : 2.0dtci

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 1200

    Default Advanced or retarded?

    Staggered up this morning to the usual sounds of the lad over the road cranking his motorcycle over for 5 mins solid on electric start - then there was a huge BANG, like a pistol shot.
    Bike started, running very rough, died, restarted with another backfire, then off he went.
    Dredging through the years to my days with cigarette paper and points, just out of curiousity, is backfiring and trouble starting mean the timing is too advanced? Early bikes had to have ignition retarded to start - or have I got it wrong?

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    Trim : SXi

    Engine : 2.2


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    Yeah I think it is advanced it over fuels. my astra gte used to suffer with that and I would sometimes get a flame from the exhaust.

  3. #3
    Regular Member jim skeen's Avatar
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    Yes yer right, to far advanced. ( maybe the rider is the other one?)

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    Regular Member gtr1000's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Insignia

    Trim : Sri

    Engine : 140 Ecoflex S/S

    Year : 2013

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    Has the bike got a carb or is it fuel injected?

    Could be that if it's got a carb, the carb float has stuck allowing fuel to find its own way (uncontrolled) into a cylinder.

    Answer could be to strip the offending carb (put finger in back of carb to see if you can feel fuel) and clean up the jets and float. Lucky he didn't hydrolock the engine leading to bent con rod/s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

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    Trim : SXi

    Engine : 2.2


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    Quote Originally Posted by jim skeen View Post
    Yes yer right, to far advanced. ( maybe the rider is the other one?)
    No it use to ignite the unburnt fuel so I thought it was advanced....or is it lol

  6. #6
    Regular Member nikroc's Avatar
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    Vehicle : 2t

    Trim : standard

    Engine : z20net

    Year : 08

    Mileage : 32000

    Default

    I guess it depends on how old the bike is and what type of ignition system it has..all my bikes since 85 have had fixed electronic ignition.(z650's,gpz 1100,zrx 1200 and my 'new' 94 plate ttr 250)..these have been a combination of carbs and fuell injection.
    If the bikes been stored with old petrol the jets etc may be gummed up and either need a strip down and manual clean or cleaned ultrasonically..

  7. #7
    Regular Member SignumPhil's Avatar
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    Backfire means the exhaust valve was open when it fired, so it's retarded (firing late). If it's a kick start, overadvanced means it fires when the inlet valve is open (too early), and drives the kickstart back up and into your shin, requiring 3 stitches (which is why always wore boots when I rode my BSA 500 after that).
    You can also get backfiring if you have an exhaust header leak, or the mixture is very weak.

    Phil

  8. #8
    Regular Member Grumpy1954's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Ford Kuga

    Trim : Titanium

    Engine : 2.0dtci

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 1200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gtr1000 View Post
    Has the bike got a carb or is it fuel injected?

    Could be that if it's got a carb, the carb float has stuck allowing fuel to find its own way (uncontrolled) into a cylinder.

    Answer could be to strip the offending carb (put finger in back of carb to see if you can feel fuel) and clean up the jets and float. Lucky he didn't hydrolock the engine leading to bent con rod/s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

    Good question, all I know is it's black and an Insurance replacement for one written off a few months back. I'll have a look next time I'm out.
    I'd say it's new enough to have electronic ignition, ran well when he first had it, but he's one of those that thinks however close to perfect it's set, he can get it better - when his abilities don't match his confidence. It's been crackling and popping on the over run for weeks, which, iirc, is running weak (in another life I had to jet up a 750-4 Honda that I put a 4 into 2 reverse come mega on, far cheaper than replacing the original, rotten system)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Grumpy1954's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Ford Kuga

    Trim : Titanium

    Engine : 2.0dtci

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 1200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SignumPhil View Post
    Backfire means the exhaust valve was open when it fired, so it's retarded (firing late). If it's a kick start, overadvanced means it fires when the inlet valve is open (too early), and drives the kickstart back up and into your shin, requiring 3 stitches (which is why always wore boots when I rode my BSA 500 after that).
    You can also get backfiring if you have an exhaust header leak, or the mixture is very weak.

    Phil

    Lol, on my fisrt bike, a 175cc Bsa bantam, I used to kick it over a dozen times befire it would fire. Theen someone told me to bring it to the firing stroke - magic, fired up everytime - till the kickstart took to jamming down.
    My dad said "leave it, I'll sort it", got down on one knee next to it, and it shot up into his shin. Air was blue for some time after.......I always wore boots,gloves, jacket and helmet over jeans and t shirt.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Grumpy1954's Avatar
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    Vehicle : Ford Kuga

    Trim : Titanium

    Engine : 2.0dtci

    Year : 2014

    Mileage : 1200

    Default

    Update. It's a light blue Suzuki, last seen about 10.30am backfiring badly afte being wound over for over 5 mins on electric start. He then revved the guts out of it, was running very lumpy, won't tick over and blows white smoke. Don't think me singing " I shot the Sheriff" helped.....

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