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Thread: Peugeot, where did it go wrong?

  1. #1
    Full Member Big Sig's Avatar
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    Default Peugeot, where did it go wrong?

    Just found this on another forum. It made me think!

    This has shamelessly been lift from the Independant:-

    Peugeot has not crash-tested one of its cars for any driver weighing more than 12 stone 4lb (78kg), an inquest heard today.

    Judith Evans, a Peugeot 107 driver who weighed almost 16 stone, died in a head-on crash with a Vauxhall Vectra on her way home from work on January 20 last year.

    Asked whether the car company had carried out crash tests on the Peugeot 107 model with dummies weighing more than 78kg, a Peugeot safety expert said it had not.

    The driver of the Vectra only suffered fractures to her kneecap and internal bruising, the inquest at High Wycombe Magistrates' Court in Buckinghamshire has heard.

    But 56-year-old mother-of-three Mrs Evans, a Chiltern Railways customer relations officer from Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, received injuries deemed by experts to be "not typical of the outcomes usually seen in such collisions".

    They found that she died in accident circumstances in which an "efficient restraint system" - including a properly functioning seatbelt, airbag and seat - is designed to provide good protection, the inquest has heard.

    Lawyer Robert Horner, representing Mrs Evans's family, asked Peugeot safety expert Richard Zeitouni: "Have you tested with any dummies more than 78kg?"

    Mr Zeitouni, giving evidence, replied that Peugeot had not.

    Mr Horner: "So you have not tested with a weight of dummy that corresponds to 50% of the male population?"

    Mr Zeitouni: "When we designed this car we found it was good, adequate protection for the majority of occupants.

    "It's an official dummy, a regulation dummy."

    Both women were driving at about 30mph when the accident occurred, according to the Vauxhall driver.

    But when their vehicles crashed into each other, Mrs Evans did not receive the usual protection provided by the design of the seat, the seat belt and the airbag, the inquest heard.

    She suffered multiple fractures, chest injuries and abdominal injuries.

    Mr Horner suggested that any consumer weighing more than 12 stone buying a car may be "slightly surprised that Peugeot has not tested for heavier than their weight".

    But Mr Zeitouni said an investigation into the crash indicated that Mrs Evans was sitting further forward in her seat than would normally be the case.

    She would therefore have been very close to the steering wheel when the airbag inflated, he said.

    Mr Horner argued that she was sitting in an appropriate position, with her back against the back of the seat and that she did not even have the seat as far forward as it would go.

    He said: "My criticism of the car (is) that therefore if you sit in an appropriately adjusted seat with your back against the upper part of the seat, the design is such that you can collide with the steering wheel before the airbag is inflated."

    Mr Zeitouni denied this was the case.

    The inquest yesterday heard from Vehicle Safety Consultancy Ltd (VSC), which was asked by Thames Valley Police to consider the protection offered to Mrs Evans in the collision on Coldharbour Way, Aylesbury, after they noticed her injuries seemed unusually severe for the force of the impact.

    Peter Gloyns, a mechanical engineer at VSC, said the car's restraint system did not appear to have worked in the way it would be expected to.

    He said: "The accident raises a serious question over the stability of the response of the total restraint system for an occupant of this build and weight in an accident of this severity in which it would be hoped that good protection could be offered."

    Dr Gloyns suggested improvements may be needed to ensure that larger drivers were provided the same protection as slimmer ones.

    Barrister William Vandyck, representing Peugeot, pointed out that the Vauxhall was heavier than the Peugeot and suggested that a hard part of the Vauxhall hit a soft part of the Peugeot, causing greater crushing of the Peugeot.

    The car's safety features are also in line with European regulations, Peugeot has argued.

    The inquest has also heard that Mrs Evans, normally a cautious driver, was travelling on the wrong side of the road and may have suffered a medical accident before the collision.

    A Peugeot spokesman said the company had no comment to make at this stage.
    Now I need a turbo to keep up!

  2. #2
    Ex Vec-C Admin Deztroyer's Avatar
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    hmm an interesting read indeed - im suprised that Toyota and Citroen are not also represented by this hearing as its a co designed model that will no doubt have exactly the same NCAP rating and tests completed .....

    0-Large smile ......every time it's driven

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    Regular Member lee gsi's Avatar
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    Default

    I thought every car manufacture used the same dummys.

    Sounds like the test needs to be changed but I would t blame Peugeot themselfs.

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    Regular Member Keithy's Avatar
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    I drive a 407 daily and i weigh 17 stone

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    force = mass x acceleration

    pug 107 = 790kg

    vec = 1500kg

    assuming acceleration the same

    thus a vec will hit with twice the force of the pug.

    no wonder it came off worse irrespective of design

    sounds like the engine / steering column also got pushed back towards the passenger compartment.

    whatever the cause its still sad when somone dies.

    I guess the motto would be ask about NCAP tests if your concerned

    or try not to have a head on......

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    Regular Member Jezzy's Avatar
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    The injuries would have been worse because she was sitting so close to the steering wheel. I don't know why people do that - there was a Stobart driver on last night's "Trucks and Trailers" programme (the one who raced the train to Scotland) and every time the camera showed him driving he was leaning over the steering wheel like he was hugging it. Maybe he feels that's ok in a truck, as he's sitting higher up, but I'd wager he does the same when he drives his car.

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    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mparks8590 View Post
    force = mass x acceleration
    You have vastly oversimplified, what you are actually after is the formula for inertia
    However for complex impacts we have some wonderful equipment, which is reasonably accurate from very little information

    Both vehicles are reported as impacting at a speed each of 30mph, although whether they actually were would be almost impossible to confirm without access to the data and report

    Such a head-on impact will normally result in leg and chest injuries, nothing more, providing the seatbelt is worn and applied correctly
    Again, this cannot be confirmed without access to the data and report
    Even having the seatbelt applied incorrectly can cause a serious further injury (even like broken wrists, etc)

    Personally, I think Peugoet got this all wrong when they put the badge on the car...

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    Regular Member m8internet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezzy View Post
    he was leaning over the steering wheel like he was hugging it. Maybe he feels that's ok in a truck, as he's sitting higher up, but I'd wager he does the same when he drives his car
    That's pretty much the normal driving position for a HGV (also PCV), it's almost impossible otherwise to drive a HGV without doing so
    Equally, it is surprisingly safe to do so although it is a compromise based around design
    Due to the weight of the vehicle it is more likely the driver will be thrown forwards only other than in any other direction (as in many car accidents the car is thrown in two or more directions)

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    Originally Posted by mparks8590
    force = mass x acceleration

    You have vastly oversimplified, what you are actually after is the formula for inertia
    However for complex impacts we have some wonderful equipment, which is reasonably accurate from very little information

    Both vehicles are reported as impacting at a speed each of 30mph, although whether they actually were would be almost impossible to confirm without access to the data and report

    Such a head-on impact will normally result in leg and chest injuries, nothing more, providing the seatbelt is worn and applied correctly
    Again, this cannot be confirmed without access to the data and report
    Even having the seatbelt applied incorrectly can cause a serious further injury (even like broken wrists, etc)

    Personally, I think Peugoet got this all wrong when they put the badge on the car...
    yes i was being simplistic, i didn't fancy going into complex physics such as inertia, vectors, tyre resistance and break away , etc, and obviously we don't have the details of the crash report etc.

    I think i was trying so suggest that the vec at 30mph would hit the pug at 30mph with twice the force.... and smaller cars do not suffer impact as well as bigger cars.


    i've been unfortunate to be in a citroen ax that was hit from the rear in standing traffic. it looked like a tom and jerry car, concertina in 3 places ....not good. The car that hit me.....50% heavier, hardly damaged atall

    i will never have a small car again because of my experience

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    Full Member gibbon7000's Avatar
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    The worrying thing is if peugoet do it, how many other manufactuers do the same? i'm 18 stone and 6'2.

    My other car. 1972 1641cc slammed beetle. On the road finally!!

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