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Thread: 2.0DTi won't start - no fuel from tank...

  1. #1
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    Default 2.0DTi won't start - no fuel from tank...

    Hi,

    I'm really scratching my head with this one....

    Ran the car on Sunday absolutely fine. Came to start the car this morning and it won't start. Home assist mechanic says no fuel to engine. Have checked voltage to tank fuel pump and it is getting 5V when ignition turned on, but no 'whir' and no fuel coming out. His theories are:
    1 - immobilser problem
    2 - tank fuel pump problem

    Just spoken to vauxhall - they say it doesn't have a pump in the tank, it is a swell chamber. I now recall I normally hear about a 5 sec whir when I switch on, but now not hearing anything - is this whir from the swell chamber or what?

    Does anyone have any ideas please? What voltage should the 'pump' or swell chamber be getting?

    I'm even more scared it is the dreaded fuel pump problem now!

    Thanks

    Ben

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    Regular Member Aikon58's Avatar
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    I don't know how many volts or anything like that Ben,but i had a 2.2 dti vectra b,and i never heard a priming noise,as the only fuel pump is on the front of the engine,which is driven by the timing chain,i know vectra b's some times suffered problems if they ran the fuel down too low in the fuel tank,due to the fuel pick up in the tank causing a problem.

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    As per the reply above, the only fuel pump in a DTi is the high pressure one driven by the chain on the engine. It therefore also has to draw the fuel from the tank which is why when you break the fuel line on a DTI - for example to change the fuel filter - you have to prime it (ideally with an electric or hand priming pump, although there are some work-arounds) before trying to start the engine as you can damage the (expensive) pump if you run it dry.

    What did the breakdown guy test/check in order to come to the conclusion that there was no fuel getting to the engine?

    Are there any warning lights on the dash, particularly the car and spanner light in the odometer display?

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    > What did the breakdown guy test/check in order to come to the conclusion that there was no fuel getting to the engine?

    He pulled off the inlet and outlet from the filter housing, while I turned it over and then said fuel wasn't getting to the front when nowt came out.

    > Are there any warning lights on the dash, particularly the car and spanner light in the odometer display?

    No warning lights at all.

    Recently I've noticed if I leave it stood for a few days it takes a good 15-20secs to get started - from searching the forums (since my first post) it seems this is evidence of an air leak. This has led me suspect that if I try and bleed the system it might then fire up.

    I've just got a hand pump from a peugeot. Where is the best place in-line to put it? - on the return line to the tank? Do I need to somehow 'open' up the fuel pump to give me a complete circuit or what.

    Thanks for all the advice - I'm really trying to avoid shelling out lots of money and doing a major strip down of the engine!

    Cheers

    Ben

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    Regular Member cerbrious's Avatar
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    either the inlet or the outlet on the filter is usually best place to fit it om most cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by phybrgj View Post
    > What did the breakdown guy test/check in order to come to the conclusion that there was no fuel getting to the engine?

    He pulled off the inlet and outlet from the filter housing, while I turned it over and then said fuel wasn't getting to the front when nowt came out.

    > Are there any warning lights on the dash, particularly the car and spanner light in the odometer display?

    No warning lights at all.

    Recently I've noticed if I leave it stood for a few days it takes a good 15-20secs to get started - from searching the forums (since my first post) it seems this is evidence of an air leak. This has led me suspect that if I try and bleed the system it might then fire up.

    I've just got a hand pump from a peugeot. Where is the best place in-line to put it? - on the return line to the tank? Do I need to somehow 'open' up the fuel pump to give me a complete circuit or what.

    Thanks for all the advice - I'm really trying to avoid shelling out lots of money and doing a major strip down of the engine!

    Cheers

    Ben
    believe you need a sealey hand pump, its not a priming pump as such, its not to pressurise the system, it connects to the return to the tank fuel pipe and pulls the fuel throught the filter round all the fuel pipes and back into the tank,

    you could try filling the filter up with diesel and turning the key to start it but don't over do it, the pump won't take much, last time i serviced mine i filled up the filter and slammed my foot on the gas as soon as it fired, did the trick for me.

    if you want to fit the peugeot pump then before the filter would be best, thats where they are on rovers, but i sure theres a reason that the dti doesn't have one, but i can't rememder why..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phybrgj View Post
    > What did the breakdown guy test/check in order to come to the conclusion that there was no fuel getting to the engine?

    He pulled off the inlet and outlet from the filter housing, while I turned it over and then said fuel wasn't getting to the front when nowt came out.

    > Are there any warning lights on the dash, particularly the car and spanner light in the odometer display?

    No warning lights at all.

    Recently I've noticed if I leave it stood for a few days it takes a good 15-20secs to get started - from searching the forums (since my first post) it seems this is evidence of an air leak. This has led me suspect that if I try and bleed the system it might then fire up.

    I've just got a hand pump from a peugeot. Where is the best place in-line to put it? - on the return line to the tank? Do I need to somehow 'open' up the fuel pump to give me a complete circuit or what.

    Thanks for all the advice - I'm really trying to avoid shelling out lots of money and doing a major strip down of the engine!

    Cheers

    Ben
    The fuel pump is the last resort - you need to rule everything else out first. Also, the symptoms you have suggest an air leak rather than than a fuel pump problem, so I'd start looking for leaks first especially as the fuel pump is very expensive!

    The test the breakdown guy did didn't actually prove anything in regards of fuel getting to the engine because of the lack of electric pump in the fuel tank to push fuel out of the pipe that he disconnected.

    First, confirm it is an air leak by leaving the car parked with the front facing downhill - gravity will help stop the air leak allowing the fuel to run back to the tank and should make the car easier to start when it's been standing for a while.

    If this proves the theory, then check the top of the fuel filter is screwed on properly and also check the rubber leak-off pipes and T-pieces along the front of the engine that take surplus diesel back into the pump. These are the most common source of air leaks and are also quick and cheap to fix. Also follow the fuel pipes and check for any signs of leaks, especially at the joins and connectors.

    After that you may be looking at the fuel injector seals which are buried in the top of the engine and you have to take the camshaft off to replace them.

    Use the advice already posted above in regards to where to fit a hand pump. In fact, I'd be interested to know how you get on with that because it's something that I will need to do soon.
    Last edited by James24; 11th March 2010 at 20:46.

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    James24, thanks for your advice. I did suspect the breakdown guy's tests!

    I've turned the car around so it is now facing downhill - not easy but my wifes little starlet helped me with it! However I won't be able to test your theory as the car won't currently start!!

    I've tried bleeding the system, with some temporary makeshift connections - after the filter, but still no joy. Am going to try it tomorrow evening in the return line after I've had a chance to get some new leak off pipe, make some less bodged connections and charged the battery!

    Would some leaky leak off pipes cause it not to start?

    I'm really hoping this will solve it, but I have a horrid feeling it won't. Just in case it comes to it, does anyone have a good guide for how to remove the fuel pump? Is it something I could get from a breakers and get re-coded or can it be recon'd?

    Thanks

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by phybrgj View Post
    James24, thanks for your advice. I did suspect the breakdown guy's tests!

    I've turned the car around so it is now facing downhill - not easy but my wifes little starlet helped me with it! However I won't be able to test your theory as the car won't currently start!!

    I've tried bleeding the system, with some temporary makeshift connections - after the filter, but still no joy. Am going to try it tomorrow evening in the return line after I've had a chance to get some new leak off pipe, make some less bodged connections and charged the battery!

    Would some leaky leak off pipes cause it not to start?

    I'm really hoping this will solve it, but I have a horrid feeling it won't. Just in case it comes to it, does anyone have a good guide for how to remove the fuel pump? Is it something I could get from a breakers and get re-coded or can it be recon'd?

    Thanks

    Ben
    Once air has got into the system, you have to bleed it out before the car will start and this can take ages.

    Leaky leak-off pipes are unlikely to cause the car not to start - this is more likely down to air in the fuel pipes which needs to be bled out so the fuel can get to the pump and the pump can push it into the engine.

    For example, if you change the fuel filter (which lets air into the system and allows the diesel to drain back into the tank) and then try to start it just having filled up the filter with fresh diesel (i.e. no priming with a hand or electric pump), it can take several minutes to get it to start with short bursts of turning over and nice long pauses inbetween (to help avoid damaging the pump).

    Be careful with the bleeding because every time you break the fuel pipes, you allow air in and the fuel may well drain back into the tank so you are then back where you started. Try to do it in one shot and preferably with the car nose down as well so gravity helps you rather than hindering.

    To help avoid having the change the pump (because it may well be OK at the moment), be gentle with it and resist the temptation to turn the engine over a lot or for a long time when it won't start.

    The ECU is attached to the top of the pump so may require some work with a Tech2 at a dealer to get a new one to work in your car, but I'm not sure. Somewhere like www.dieselbob.co.uk would be best for advice on your options, but you really need to rule out the air leak first.

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    This happened to my last 2.0dti. Leaky pipe and fuel runs back into the tank and then it can't get back again to start. It would start if you primed it direct. Turned out it was a leak off pipe. New pipe no more problem.

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